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I officially give up trying to figure out what is happening with my supply.

Tracker says I produced 20736 supply in Japan last turn and the demand was 21154, a difference of 418. One factory repaired consuming 1000 supply. So my total over what I produced was 1418. Yet my overall supply level in Japan dropped from 1355879 to 1351567, a difference of 4312. The numbers are just not matching up. If I understand things correctly an additional 2394 supply was consumed, but I have no idea what is using it.

How is it that my economy is ruined? I can't generate enough supply to sustain Japan even when there is only one factory repairing at 1000/day while losing an additional 2394 over and above what is stated as required. I don't get it. Does Japan reach a point in November of 1942 where it's supply generating capacity becomes negative?

I get the fact I spent a lot of supply on R&D, but that also will morph right into production. If I didn't spend much on R&D in 1942 I'd still have to spend the same amount of supply in a few years to get the production numbers up. So whether the supply was spent in 42 or 43 or 44 shouldn't matter. What does seem to matter is that Japan in this game is no longer able to generate any kind of supply surplus daily with pratically the entire country shut down in terms of using supply for any other means than day to day needs. Is this as designed?

If it's true that the economy is toast and I will run a deficit until I run out some time in late 43 or early 44 what can I possibly do here? How is it that other Japanese games with production numbers that dwarf mine are able to go into the late game and still have supply? Is it because most are Scenario 2? Why is it that in November of 1942 I can no longer generate a supply surplus?

If I cooked the economy I want to know why? If I was generating a supply surplus 40 days ago, what changed? I had direct feedback from the game that the economy was sustainable by providing a supply surplus daily. Now it's gone into deficit and it doesn't explain why. I've turned everything off, replacements, upgrades, air missions, training, base expansions and repairs (all except 1 factory) and supply continues to drop.

I'm hooped and I have no idea what happened.

PM Damian and then send him a turn. If I get over my head with Japan's economy, he has helped me out. Playing games as Allies right now, but he is pretty good at using Tracker to figure things out.

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

PM Damian and then send him a turn. If I get over my head with Japan's economy, he has helped me out. Playing games as Allies right now, but he is pretty good at using Tracker to figure things out.

I might have to. I'm out of ideas and if I can't get an understanding of what happened this game will become a chore in frustration knowing that I'm going to run out of supply within the year without even firing a shot.

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

PM Damian and then send him a turn. If I get over my head with Japan's economy, he has helped me out. Playing games as Allies right now, but he is pretty good at using Tracker to figure things out.

I might have to. I'm out of ideas and if I can't get an understanding of what happened this game will become a chore in frustration knowing that I'm going to run out of supply within the year without even firing a shot.

No time to read back several pages right now to see if this has been addressed, but are you absolutely sure no bases are over supply limits and facing spoilage penalties? I know many bases start without fields and with small ports, but have industry and may have been allocated more supply. That's a lot of supply to lose each day, but in some tests I was running spoilage at one base seemed to eat around 800-1,000 points of supply a day out of around 50k total in a base with only a port and no field. So it was over the supply limit by about 40k, and the price was steep.

If you can send a couple of turns to me to load into Tracker, I volunteer to take a look.

ORIGINAL: obvert
...but are you absolutely sure no bases are over supply limits and facing spoilage penalties?

I will check again. I know I have a few bases that are suffering spoilage, one may be well over the limit though. If the amount spoiling is anything close to your 800-1000 supply/day that could be contributing for sure. I think Amoral mentioned something about spoilage before and when I took a quick look nothing stood out, now I'm not so sure and I could have one base for sure in trouble. I will look there first.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. It's very easy to miss one base or setting somewhere. I'll recheck spoilage and adjust base supply levels to eliminate what spoilage I can and see what happens. I appreciate the offers to help.

Damian's on it. [8D]

However, following up on the suggestions to double check spoilage, I came across a disturbing development. I had four bases in Japan that were encountering spoilage: Hamamatsu, Kanazawa, Matsuyama and Maebashi. The first three were set to draw supply at 4k to give me 12k on hand for factory repairs. all well and good and I could live with the spoilage of these smaller bases. The big WTF moment came when I looked at Maebashi. It is a level 4 airbase with no forts and had 734158 supply on hand [X(]! Supply draw was set to 7k to facilitate factory repairs. Tokyo, on the other hand, only had 61498 supply on hand with no supply draw requested.

Knowing that all my bases except Tokyo containing factories needing repair were all set to draw 4k of supply for a total of 12k on hand I forgot about it and never really looked at the supply levels closely. I had moved the General Defence Army HQ to Maebashi some time ago and never gave things a second thought. However, seeing that Maebashi was stockpiling a huge amount of supply for only a level 4 base I immediately thought...oh no. I wonder if the HQ coupled with the large number of factory repairs needed at Maebashi is what caused the supply to mass there and not Tokyo where I wouldn't suffer spoilage due to the port and airbase sizes. Can anyone guess how much supply I may have been losing at Maebashi over the last 45 days due to spoilage with amounts reaching over 700k?

I've sent the turn off to Jocke. I've ordered the General Defence Army HQ to move to Tokyo. The next few days should tell me if too much supply being moved to Maebashi by the AI despite the base being too small to avoid spoilage was the issue. I'm not 100% sure this is what the problem is, but with everything else still turned off I'll wait a few more days to find out. Once the HQ reaches Tokyo I should have my answer.

I'll tell you this, if it turns out spoilage at Maebashi is the reason for the supply loss I'll be right pissed off. The damage done to my economy will be equivalent to roughly 400k of supply that could have been stockpiled lost for nothing. I won't know for a few days, but part of me wants it to be the problem, the other half is going to go postal if so.

Lokasenna, thanks for the offer to look things over. Damian's willing to take a look so I'll wait to see what he says. I have a bad feeling it's going to be all about spoilage at Maebashi.

Yep. That was your problem. The General Defense HQ is what was drawing all the supply and it was all spoiling.

Ouch.

Ouch.

Sorry Joseph. That sucks. I realize I must have done smaller versions of this a few times in my game with Jocke, and your situation just made me lok through the Torsten game to check. Sure enough, there were at least two bases set to draw at 4k (>12k) that had only a level 1 field, so were spoiling some every day of the 4k excess.

Interesting. Probably happens a lot.

The command HQ dra also probably is involved in a lot of spoilage when it is placed in the field off road. That's another thing I had thought about when I began to be a bit more, um, concerned, about supply.

Hi Guys -
just for clarification, it is mostly spoilage at work here. With that amount of 680K supplies at a level4 base the butchers bill is around 20K per day lost.

I haven't done any real testing on this in a long time (back to vanilla witp) but I think there is a graduated scale...(As are most things in witp/AE)

I will have to research further and update my econ doc and Tracker as I really forgot about this.

Joseph - email sent and I'm off to Malaysia for a bit...

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Hi Guys -
just for clarification, it is mostly spoilage at work here. With that amount of 680K supplies at a level4 base the butchers bill is around 20K per day lost.

I haven't done any real testing on this in a long time (back to vanilla witp) but I think there is a graduated scale...(As are most things in witp/AE)

I will have to research further and update my econ doc and Tracker as I really forgot about this.

Joseph - email sent and I'm off to Malaysia for a bit...

Yeeeeeoouuuuuccchhhh!!!!! That is a LOT of supply. [X(]

SqzMyLemon-thanks for educating us all on this possible problem. As a reader, I appreciate these sorts of player insights from all concerned. [8D]

I could rant and rave, but I won't this time.

I never would have thought that by simply moving a HQ unit the AI would do something so drastic as to draw all excess supply in the entire country to a level 4 base instead of Tokyo for example. This was a big oucho. The supply lost would have paid for half my remaining repairs, or allowed thousands of aircraft sorties.

I'm pretty steamed, but what can I do. I'm kicking myself for not seeing it sooner, but then I'd never have thought the situation even possible. I could yada, yada about this till the cows come home, but I need to put this one behind me and recover as best as possible. In two days the HQ will be in Tokyo and I hope to see supply production stabilize shortly after.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to the discussion. I definitely learned something important despite having to take one in the junk while doing so.

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I could rant and rave, but I won't this time.

I never would have thought that by simply moving a HQ unit the AI would do something so drastic as to draw all excess supply in the entire country to a level 4 base instead of Tokyo for example. This was a big oucho. The supply lost would have paid for half my remaining repairs, or allowed thousands of aircraft sorties.

I'm pretty steamed, but what can I do. I'm kicking myself for not seeing it sooner, but then I'd never have thought the situation even possible. I could yada, yada about this till the cows come home, but I need to put this one behind me and recover as best as possible. In two days the HQ will be in Tokyo and I hope to see supply production stabilize shortly after.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to the discussion. I definitely learned something important despite having to take one in the junk while doing so.

You can always look to the bright side. You found it! If you hadn't, this would have killed the game. [;)]

OUCH!!

While not playing Japan now, I understand how this would hurt. My OCD-ness always got the best of me playing Japan and I ran Tracker every turn. Micro-managed the economy to death. [:D]

ORIGINAL: obvert

You can always look to the bright side. You found it! If you hadn't, this would have killed the game. [;)]

Yes, this game has been brought back from the brink. I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or not right now. [:D]

I joke. I'm relieved to get this sorted out.

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

OUCH!!

While not playing Japan now, I understand how this would hurt. My OCD-ness always got the best of me playing Japan and I ran Tracker every turn. Micro-managed the economy to death. [:D]

I thought I was. Even when spoilage was mentioned the first time it never registered that Maebashi would draw ALL excess supply in Japan just because I'd moved the General Defence Army.

Glad to get it figured out though and get back on track. I'll slowly resume production and try to maximize supply stockpiling to recover quickly.

I hate to say it (many devs will scream! [:D]), this game could stand just a little more in the way of player control over supply flow. I don't mean making supply flow faster and such, I mean things such as limits that could be set and maybe some other 'small' things people could come up with. I'll be getting a running start now...

---

Edited stupid typo. [:'(]

I agree with you there witpqs. There are lots of things I'd like to see added or removed, but as has been pointed out, a player has to work with what there is.

Anyway, back to the game...

Another quiet turn.

Sub Ops:

Another Allied submarine takes a direct DC hit right on the kisser. I seem to only record one direct hit during successful attacks, but depending on damage it could force a withdrawal. Allied submarines are aggressively patrolling shallow water hexes, but are finally starting to pay for this practice.

China:

Japanese forces are recovering from a number of costly attacks and reinforcements are moving forward. Chungking now sports 83 units so the Zombies are arriving in force.

Upgrades & Refits:

The important TF's reached the Home Islands, but unfortunately one was attacked by submarine and gave up the identity of a number of ships. BB Hiei and a number of DD's were identified. Hopefully Jocke doesn't put two and two together and suspect a large portion of the Imperial Fleet has been withdrawn. Jan. 43 upgrades for ASW ratings of 2 to 4 for a large number of DD's is imperative to combat the increased enemy submarine threat.

KB is upgrading a number of CV's to A6M3a's and Judy's. A large number of ships have accrued low levels of engine and system damage that need some time to repair. Essentially half the Combined Fleet has been removed from active duty. I'm spotting the Allies some time to cause mischief, but having the best counter punching force I have available upgraded with the latest improvements is more important to me than defending a number of atolls in the Central Pacific right now.

Production:

The supply situation has been covered, what remains is a few days to confirm the problem and take the necessary steps to put the economy back on track. I'll take things a little slower and focus on the immediate need to generate a supply surplus again and repair the factories of those airframes closest to reaching production. The N1K1 George just advanced R&D to 6/43 and the Ha-45 engine is 3 days away from entering production at 260/month.

Thoughts

I just want to get through the next few days and begin 1943 with everything functioning correctly. Another big push in China is needed, but I will maneuver through the mountains to try and put more pressure on Chinese forces and prevent them being able to simply cycle fresh units against my advancing force's point of attack. I've got to save up PP's once again to buy out a number of LCU's for deployment to the Kuriles. I'll be receiving a large number of aviation support units assigned to the Northern Army HQ that will shore up this theatre and provide an adequate air defence. Unrestricted units are heading to the IO to secure my positions in the Andaman Islands, Sumatra and the Malay coast. Within the next 30-35 days the CV Taiho and CVL Ryujo join the fleet along with a number of DD's. Then I most likely look for trouble and contest the next Allied push.

Dec. 28/42:

China:

I launch a deliberate attack against the Chinese 10 LCU's isolated near Ichang to gauge the enemy strength remaining. One Chinese Corps is destroyed, but I was surprised that the adjusted AV of the defenders was so high. These troops have been completely out of supply for months so getting better than half seems extremely generous. I really need to stop thinking that lack of supply should mean an easier go of things as the defence of Chinese troops in 3x defensive terrain has clearly shown they can be just as effective with or without supply. AAR follows:

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Ground combat at 83,46 (near Ichang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 24269 troops, 182 guns, 34 vehicles, Assault Value = 868

Defending force 20577 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 415

Japanese adjusted assault: 609

Allied adjusted defense: 283

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), morale(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
441 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 72 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
894 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 74 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
41st Division
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade

Defending units:
69th Chinese Corps
10th Chinese Corps
22nd Chinese Corps
25th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Corps
52nd Chinese Corps
65th Chinese Corps
51st Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps

Southeast Pacific:

Ndeni has already been captured by the Allies. Just the process of eliminating the defenders remains.

Burma:

Jocke's been indicating movement out of Akyab for months, but this time he forgets to reset his bluff. AAR follows:

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Ground combat at 55,45 (near Akyab)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 570 troops, 15 guns, 4 vehicles, Assault Value = 31

Defending force 13350 troops, 144 guns, 47 vehicles, Assault Value = 448

Allied adjusted assault: 0

Japanese adjusted defense: 2091

Allied assault odds: 1 to 99

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), fatigue(-)
supply(-)

Allied ground losses:
582 casualties reported
Squads: 41 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
Rangoon BAF Battalion

Defending units:
33rd Division
5th RF Gun Battalion

Dec. 29/42:

Sub Ops:

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Submarine attack near Milne Bay at 101,133

Japanese Ships
SS RO-61

Allied Ships
xAKL Van Diemen

xAKL Van Diemen is sighted by SS RO-61
Captain of SS RO-61 elects not to launch torpedoes at this target

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Milne Bay at 101,133

Japanese Ships
SS RO-61, hits 4

Allied Ships
xAKL Sigli, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage

xAKL Sigli is sighted by SS RO-61
SS RO-61 attacking on the surface ([8|])

New Guinea:

Two small xAKL's are running supply to Milne Bay, one is dispached by SS RO-61 as noted above, the other is sunk by Val's. AAR follows:

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Milne Bay at 101,133

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D3A1 Val x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAKL Van Diemen, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Massive explosion on xAKL Van Diemen

Southeast Pacific:

The last Japanese defenders at Ndeni have been eliminated. An Allied support TF is spotted approaching the base.

Thoughts:

New Guinea and the Solomons are going to be tough to defend with my lack of preparation, but that is fine. I don't want to commit heavily to this theatre, but I also don't want to give it up for next to nothing. I'd like to keep this theatre a side show and will be looking at ways to strike without incurring too much risk.

Ecocomy:

The General Defence Army HQ arrived in Tokyo today this turn, so hopefully only one or two more days of spoilage will occur until supply redistribution gets sorted out in Japan.