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Originally posted by Steven Utley:
If ever a nation has been defeated, it is Japan in early 1945.

So there.

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If I were the Emperor, I'd certainly be thinking surrender . . . I'm curious; how close are the Japanese to surrendering? What is the score in-game?

Steven - Quick interjection to say how much I've enjoyed yr excellent, engaging commentary. Thanks!

Spring 1945: During March and April, the Allies carved the Empire of Japan into ever more, and increasingly smaller, pieces. While Scoones' British and Indian divisions at Bangkok functioned as the stopper in the jug containing Japanese, Thai, and Indian National forces in Malaya, Alexander at Saigon dispatched some units by sea to help KMT troops, freshly arrived at Zhanjiang, keep the enemy's 22nd and 23rd Armies penned up at Haiphong. Other Commonwealth forces in French Indo-China were earmarked for an invasion of Hong Kong, to be supported by naval units including the French battleship Richelieu and the aircraft carriers Indefatigable, Implacable, Illustrious, Victorious, Unicorn, and Colossus. Alexander's main body, however, remained at Saigon to keep a sizable enemy contingent cut off at Phnom Penh.

Meanwhile, having secured the Marianas, Formosa, and all of the Philippine archipelago except Luzon, U.S. forces invaded the Ryukyus. The Marines who landed at Amami Oshima encountered negligible resistance, those at Sakishima, none at all -- and Okinawa's plentitude of defenders found themselves caught in a vise.

These operations, so close to the Home Islands, naturally provoked "special attacks," most of which pitted small numbers of kamikaze aircraft against scores of defending fighters, with predictable results. While softening up the Ryukyus, the U.S. Navy's fast battleships strayed out from under the protecting fighter umbrella and duly became the target of half a dozen waves of attackers -- perhaps 100 aircraft in all, including Ohka manned rocket bombs. The big boys splashed them, every one. Suicide bombers did sink two escort carriers and almost sank the light carrier Cabot, but failed to delay the Allied advance in the least.

***

[Later.] As of the 5-14-45 turn, I have twice tried to land seaborne troops at Hong Kong; both times, the transport group from Saigon has approached its objective, hung around long enough to watch the carriers and the battleships do their stuff, then steamed back to Saigon and disembarked its troops. What gives?

Where are the Japanese getting their oil? Their reserve dipped dramatically following the loss of Borneo and Sumatra, but soon returned to normal, 4000+ units. Their few remaining merchantmen (and even fewer tankers) hug coastlines in a vain effort to escape notice by Allied pilots and submarine skippers; the imperial trade routes have shrunk to an area compassed by Paramushio, Tsingtao, and Amoy. So, where are they getting their oil?

As of 5-14-45, the scores are:

Japan: 80,219 points

Allies: 118,945 points

[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Utley ]</p>

May 1945 saw the Nationalist Chinese enter undefended Canton and British and Australian troops take, first, Hong Kong, then, Amoy. The protracted and costly battle for Bangkok concluded with General Scoones' British and Indian divisions forcing General Adachi's Japanese, Thai, and Indian National forces back to Phnom Penh -- already swollen with trapped units.

By the end of the month, total Japanese naval losses since December 1941 stood at:

7 x CV, 10 x CVL, 5 x CVE
5 x BB, 6 x CA, 23 x CL, 11 x CS
130 x DD, 38 x DE, 159 x PC
15 x AO, 235 x AP, 1739 x MCS, 164 x TK
42 x SS

The Allies had lost:

7 x CV, 3 x CVL, 8 x CVE
6 x BB, 1 x BC, 2 x CA, 7 x CL, 1 x CLAA
26 x DD, 17 x DE, 20 x PC
2 x APD, 10 x AO, 14 x AP, 7 x LST, 108 x MCS, 7 x LST
61 x SS

The Japanese lost an additional 47 ships during the week of June 4th. Relentless battering by hundreds of Allied land- and ship-based aircraft finally flushed the vestigal IJN from Shanghai, the battleship Yamashiro and the heavy cruisers Mogami and Tone were sunk off Formosa, and Yamato and Musashi pounded to scrap -- but the American pilots allowed themselves to be distracted by subchasers and other small fry, thereby squandering several opportunities to finish off the monsters.

[ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Utley ]</p>

Greetings, Great reading, I suppose I might have missed it and you getting as far along as you have (I have never been in 1945 as allies before-Japan AI usally quits in Nov 43) have likely figured out some of the things you asked about in the begining of this epic. (how to get Mac out of PI and activating units)
Now that you have sunk that proud and noble vessal IJNS Mogami, I would like to propose a 2 player ver 2.3 pbem game where you do your excellent reporting/commentary of the war. (Once Mogami is lost Japan will no doubt surrender soon after( Mogami has the only method of commuacating and awaking Godzilla onboard) I propose the Tora Tora Tora scenario but the Rising Sun will do, (if Rising Sun then Historical first turn). I will do the Japanese news as part of the e-mailing the turn, And yours after you view turn and enter your next. (In PBEM game Japan makes turn sends to Allies, allies view vcr of previous turn and then enter new turn and send back to Japan. Turn is resolved live for Japan who makes next turn and sends etc etc) My suggested house rules. Japan moves no LCU in China, Airgroups in China my be moved between China bases but not withdrawn from China. Japan can not amph land or bombard Singapore or Manila. Japanese amph landings must have air cover or at least be in range of search planes) (this prevents those deep thrusts possible by players simply because we know where everything is/is not. No real commander would dare send a unit unescorted 1000 miles into enemy territory without ar least a birdfarm covering it or preforming a recon/scout mission. It only makes the Japanese behave rationaly (I like grabbing Canton Island quickly, but I must first take Tarawa/Makin and place a scout there. (and eliminates those silly West Coast US adventures I've seen advertised)(USMC Raider Bn's emmune to rule(yes they can commit suicide if you want them to?-it's their job <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> ) Japan can not surrender unless the game surrenders (I have to play no matter what)
You must know it is almost impossible for Japan to force an Allied surrender, I will consider a draw (Japan does not surrender before 1 Jan 1946) a victory. I will make my turn and e-mail it back to you within 12 hours, (Often within 1 hour since I live on line) US Army air Groups must fly US Army Aircraft. US Navy/Marine Airgroups must fly US Navy/Marine Aircraft All others may fly whatever you wish. British/Commonwealth factories must produce British Commonwealth aircraft. US factories must produce US aircraft. (This means while you are required to build British aircraft British CV's can in fact fly F4F SBD TBD if you so desire.)(The pools will hardly notice) No non Chinese LCU may enter a Chinese base. (Japan will move any LCU violating this rule on turn 1 out on turn 1) While Chinese Airgroups can fly any type aircraft you want they must be based on aCHinese base (exception they may base in anybase under control of a HQ commanded by Vinager Joe Stillwell
LCU under command of Stillwell may conduct combat against Japanese CEA units. (Likewise the Japanese army in China should it come into contact with Stillwell has all movement combat restrictions removed. non Chinese Airgroups may not be based in non Stillwell China bases. (since Japanese army can not conduct operations to remove them they are not allowed-(see Stillwell note above)(Flying Tigers exempted) Any house rule you want post. I guess I should acknowledge this is also an open invitation to anyone wanting a PBEM game. I am AC/DC as far as sides go I can do Allies.

Originally posted by Steven Utley:


of almost ten years. Every few days I restart the Campaign '41 game, take my lumps as the unprepared and overmatched Allies, and throw in the towel along about April 1942. My defeats are

figured out, finally, how to get Admiral Hart and Asiatic Fleet HQ loaded onto a ship and safely away from Manila before the Japanese barge in (usually from Legaspi and usually by no later than the second December 1941 turn). I somehow can't contrive to do the same for General MacArthur, however, with the result that Dugout Doug gets scooped up in the net that inevitably bags Bataan.

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Others may have said it... playing Allies your not going to see much if any success until late 1943-on, 1941-42 Japan can run wild... best can do is try keep em from breaking US-Australia supply path.

Stick it out and later the CV's roll off and the Fast BB's and you can go in and take japan out.

As to moving HQ, I never bother with the Ship thing, just Change another base like Cairns to SW Pac Control and use the relocate HQ

Off Macarther goes by sub and plane to Australia.

My Fav trick is setting port Blair to Asiactic fleet control and moving uts HQ there with what phillipine assets I can salvage..

<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

The Asiatic Fleet is actually VERY useful, since it can be used in early 1942 to mess around with the Japanese intelligence as to where the US is dedicating forces. If you put Asiatic HQ in the Netherlands, it might look like you are dedicating SW Pacific resources to the area, fooling your enemy... Maybe it is SW Pacific reinforcing the area..?

It is not much use after 1942 though.

Hi, I don't let Japan destroy any HQ or leader (except Malaya HQ and Percy) I have fought complete Wars with ABDA leading the way up from Timor. (Lord Louie in Command and the Dutch Lt Gen serving as air commander (He had very impressive numbers by early 43 9 air and 9 land)
In ABDA I had a few surviving Dutch Bn, Aussies, Indians, American, and British units (2 Marine divisions were with ABDA in the great battle for Ambon Island) When Japan surrendered ABDA controled bases from NG to Borneo to south of Java. Adm Harts HQ sat in Broome the entire war and handled supply for subs in this sector, maintained long range air patrol/bombers and sent supply TF's forward to ABDA bases. He even had his own LCU assigned (USA inf Rgt)

I just began a 2.3 '41 campaign as the allies (japanese help).

12/7/41 Pearl Harbor- a real mess- 8 BB's become fish hatcheries, 3 DD's join them and I even lose a sub at PH! not an auspicious beginning! somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 sqds, 75 armored, god knows how many artillery, and OVER 500 obsolecent planes fall to the mighty Japanese war machine in one week. I place Dugout Doug in charge of the 4th Army in SF. I actually remember to switch Nimitz and Kimmel at PH and change every airgroup outside of China I can to P-40C's or A-20's. Wainwright's going to take the fall in Manila again I'm sure... HK holding on, Singapore has its airgroups moved to Palembang and Tac-bombers are put on NI-delaying the inevitable... Switch subs to computer control... any suggestions from anyone?

Hi, move Wainright to Bataan, don't defend Midway/Johnson/Palmyra intill PH and surrounding Island have built airbases and have airgroups up and operating. Send CV's to South Pacific (lack of Japanese LBA down there makes it a good hunting area early on-suprise those unescorted Jap transport TF's taking the Solomons) Use Sigint find Combined HQ and keep track of where it goes (the IJN CV's go where it goes) Send a couple of infantry divisions from west coast to South/SW pacific make sure Pt Moreby and Espirtu have a full division and an engineer. Don't let the computer handle your subs. Send all the old types (S Salmon etc to New Cal fuel them and then deploy them up around Rabaul. The Gatos to begin with screen just outside of Midway (once you are sure the IJN not heading into Cen Pac refuel and reorganize them and send out merchant hunting. Put 2 range 4or5 bomber groups in both Darwin and Broom on NI they do a nice job sinking AP's starting around Feb 42. Then you just move new airgroups to PH and when those bases full start diverting a few groups south. The allies have to wait intill Japan sticks its neck (CV's) out too far and gets it chopped off. Then you start planning offensive action (circa May-June 42)

Mogami,
Thanks for the advice, Wainwright will fall eventually, but I will move HQ to Bataan. Subs to Caledonia area to intercept AP's right? Your absolutely correct about US CV's and IJN's CV TF's. will send em there as soon as Wasp/Hornet (?) gets to PH from SD. As IJN player I love to ambush US TF's (CA's etc.) early on in Ellice Is. area, avoid this as US player?
General questions- will post back tonite on results of 2nd week. (I am certainly not in Mr. Utley's class, but will try to be descriptive as possible...

Why lose Wainwright? Put him in charge of Batan. After a number of turns of the Japanesse attacking he will go up in stats. I have seen him get to 9 land and 7 agression. Move the SW Pacific HQ to Cairns.

12/14-28/41

As Mogami suggested Manila HQ moved to Bataan- where Wainwright AND Hardee are killed by bombing from Dole Plantation in 1 turn? (airgroups must be fast movers 60 fighters and 44 bombers on this raid from Dole-just lost it last turn...) Oh well, nice idea-poor execution by me, seems more detail I ask of computer the screwier things that happen...

Anyway- I moved 3 sub forces in area of Singapore with immediate results, 2 convoys passing thru- get 1 AV sunk and 1 damaged, 2nd juicy target right behind it Tenyru CL leading his parade takes 1 hit and also becomes a fish hatchery Yahoo! (well maybe it was him VBG...) IJA moving quickly towards Singapore from Saigon and sealift seems to be working despite the subs efforts.
Back home MacA is sheparding his armies to SF for deployment to the South Pacific. Enterprise and Lexington form TF 58 with CA/DD escort to begin the cat-n-mouse hunt for IJN shipping near Guadalcanal. shortage of AV's means Eng. units are stacking up in PH, while 1/41st jumps on 3 Henderson AP's & 2 Manley APD's for a short ride to Makin Is. Covering thier advance is the Colorado BB, 3 CA's and 2 CL's with DD screens. Bombardment force should arrive 1st, to expected small NGU forces. We'll see...
Having trouble deciding what air units to try to build up first- ABDA re-equipped w/ P-40C's are low 50's exp. and could use training, but how quickly will the IJN appear?
I'm impressed by China airgroups, Hungkow taking a beating from Lancers and Bolo's- checked thier exp... already hi 30's (started at 20) Nates at Hungkow fighting 2-1 odds so far, where is their backup?
Admiralty Is, Rabaul and other bases nearby are being overrun, Rabaul holding out with air support from beefed up Port Moresby (1 B-17/2 P-40C groups forwarded there from Australia). Situation doubtful for NZ area at this time.
More coming soon

1/11-18/42

I'm starting to think something IS screwy with this game, Wainwright just turned up with the SW HQ in San Fransisco-after being killed in Bataan! (alright who's getting bad intel???...) Hes also now the air boss, not HQ boss... Demotion maybe? HQ boss slot is vacant (maybe Hardee took one for him?) Also Dole plantation shows 2AF, where the H*** did 60 fighters and 44 bombers come from then???
Otherwise, game is going OK, Makin Is. was invaded by the 1/41st, took until next turn for NGU unit to fold and quit... Immediately drew air groups attention from Entiwetok and Kwajalein...
Jap sub took potshots at CV group going to Ellice Is, no damage to either side. re-adjusted subs to form picket line down the "slot" off Rabaul, hoping for some Jap CV's to come visiting...
Singapore sub groups taking some pounding now- still dishing it out to the convoys though, I lost 2 subs for 3 3-t merchies last turn. Kuala Lumpur packed it in- nearly 2500 troops surrendered, leaving Singapore isolated now- woke up air groups on Palembang though- A-20's started going after shipping outside Kuala Lumpur. get some experience in a hurry now...
Nothing much else going on now- moving some air groups from PH towards Christmas Is. & beefing up Midway (1 B-17/ 1 F4F/ 2 SBD's/ PBY) Thats it for now...

Hi, I misunderstood you, I thought Wainwright was simply the base commander (alt-w then f1) SW pac HQ should be moved (usally to Cairns) on turn one.
To do this go to Cairns, now look in command in grey bar (util cen HQ etc etc) press HQ go to change base and the list of HQ comes up select SW pacific. Now select HQ again only click relocate and SW Pac HQ will jump right to Cairns. This takes a few PP but there should be enough on turn 1 (turn 2 at latest) Japan can not capture Manila before you get a turn 2 move. Be very carefull Trying to capture Japanese bases this early. Makin has no airfield so you will have no aircover when the angry Japanese show up to reclaim their base. stick to putting troops on your EMPTY bases. (cough*Espirtu Santo*cough)
your CV should base at New Cal intill Espirtu airbases built (for land based air support) their are handy bomber groups on Fiji and a really strange (but large) US Army group flying SBD's they can fly from Brisbane to New Cal and once you get engineer to increase size of New Cal airbase you have a monster naval interdiction group)

Oh and you know how to put HQ under human control, same as above only select HQ control then full human. Place all HQ under full Human or the AI will move your units around. (in it's mindless AI manner and always the specific unit you have other plans for)

[ February 10, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]</p>

1/25/42-2/19/42
"Angry Japanese" show up to reclaim base... You are right Mogami! Another NGU unit came to visit Makin Is. expressed thier displeasure with the situation, and promptly got back on thier craft and left, damn shame as I had the same bombardment group (Colorado BB, etc.)along with the 2/41st from PH going to Tarawa Is next door...(glimmer of an idea here, to foothold and extend northwards toward Wake/Eniwetok/Truk).
Yes I am ambitious but I figure it will divert attention away from New Zealand for a bit...

My Lexington/Enterprise CV group is vainly looking for TF's of ANY kind near Guadalcanal...
Bataan is buttoned up awaiting Jap invasion...
ABDA going after NI shipping...
Subs along Rabaul picket line see some BB's take no shots, Subs near Singapore being chased -took a few potshots-1 3-t merchie kill in 2 weeks...Major troop convoy from SF to Fiji, 1st surface fleet TF out of PH, (3CA, 5DD groups)sending them to hang around CV TF... Need to form Replenish TF for Fiji area... IGH is at Tokyo looks like IJN 4 CVL TF near Rabaul from sightings, 2 large BB TF's,2 small poss landing TF's also nearby...

Yes Mogami I was aware of the Change HQ and the computer/human control feature (but I appreciate it anyway) Everyone is on Human control, SW HQ switched back to computer controlled when it went back to SF, I changed it back and was going to move it to Cairns-not enough PP to move (100 pp)

HI, it only costs like 5-10 PP to move a HQ, first change the base it is to move to and make sure another HQ is not based there then relocate.
You just finished your 4th week? That should be enough time, stay out of Kwajaleins air range.
Ignore those non air base islands if your going to jump on one take one that already has an airfield. (I would have bugged out to Espirtu)
Don't worry about New Zealand worry about New Cal Pt Morsby and Milne Bay. I am sure you can see the Japanese moving towards the area, 2-3 weeks after they capture Rabaul they will start down Solomons. Save fuel wait in New Cal. Did you get my e-mail?

Mogami,
thanks for info... No email right now- I'm a part of the Comcast "great upgrade" so as soon as I get it worked out I'll get your email and answer you right back.

Tarawa worked out fine- 2nd NGU unit must of been from here, there was no one home... moved 2 P-40 units in- started battling right away with Kwajalein bombers... Japanese seem pissed about Rabaul not rolling over, and Port Moresby sending bombers... sent CVL TF to PM, pretty good battle, definitely damaged one of the CVL's and a DD, heavy plane losses both sides (more losses for me though), cant get Lexington/Enterprise TF to engage ANYONE, Fletcher is Commander, maybe a change is in order... Sorong, Macassar, NZ chain starting to fall. Singapore taking losses, Bataan had 5100 troops surrender, situation extremely doubtful, a bright note; jap shipping starting to avoid Singapore and Rabaul, finding TF's going outside Green Is.to deliver thier supplies instead of down the "slot" its now week of March 1,1942

Not so great historic start for japanese in the campaign I just started. Attacks were made only against airfield and depots in Pearl Harbor. But one british destroyer was sunk in Malaya!!! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Mogami,
I appreciate the invitation to play by e-mail but must regretfully decline to accept, partly because I'd feel myself overmatched, partly because I've been waging my current campaign (since Christmas!) on Pacific War version 2.2, which you up-to-the-minute types evidently have discarded for version 2.3, and mostly because I really must buckle down and do some $eriou$ writing, if you get my meaning. I hope, however, to have your and other folks' after-action reports to read. Better vicarious wargaming than none at all.