Matrix Games Forums

Moopere noone is in an hysterical state about this. There are those of us who would love this featureinstead of PBEM. I have 9 friends who would rather play the game real time over PBEM. 7 of them have not bought the game because of this but would if TCP/IP were offered. Also those 7 don't troll these forums. We play other games online together as a group and they contend to stick with other games till this feature is launched or they will stay satisfied with what they are doing. For us it is no problem getting together online two to three times/week to play games and we are informed if one is going to be gone for extended periods of time. Like I have stated many times now TCP/IP is a great fit for our group, but PBEM is not. In the early 90's we played EiA via Snail Mail and had a good time with it and in the late 90's played by email. We typed out our turns and sent them to the moderator for play and we had fun at the time. Now with todays technology something better for us is out there and our group would use it if available. PBEM to most of them is an archaic form of game play. We were doing that in the 90's and now 10 years later we would still be doing the same thing. If it is not implemented then it is too bad for us, but if it could be then it should be. I see the resistance to it even though is not the most rational and I really have no idea why anyone would oppose it. The "Programmers" seem to think it will add SO much time in the development of a game that is already released. I keep seeing people say they don't care yet they argue pretty hard against it. If people want it shouldn't it be offered. Just Like PBEM. People wanted it and got it. I have patience and as Marshall told me there are some issues more pressing and I agree. For this to be implemented all it would take is for many in the community to ask for it and those who don't care to either support it or stay out of it. For those who oppose it there must be some deep seeded fear of it or maybe they just like to be bullish and go against the grain. Either way is rediculous. TCP/IP will be good for some and maybe not others.

ORIGINAL: moopere

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

ORIGINAL: moopere

Live chat? I thought we were talking about an IGOUGO gaming system? I assume that you -do- realise email is sent over tcp/ip as its transport protocol?

Yes, I understand the both the current Internet model and the OSI model. I am also quite aware of Amdahl's Law (for the other guy).

YOU were the one that pointed out that TCP/IP connections can get lost and you used that as an argument against TCP/IP play, so I guess you are correcting yourself, thank you.

Oh for goodness sakes. That was me outlaying a corner case issue with direct tcp/ip in response to an assertion (by someone) that emails get lost and/or can take a long time. If you'd read what I was saying you'd have known that both are corner cases and should not be used as arguments for or against.

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
The "live chat" vs. "email" was just an analogy, sorry if you didn't understand that. TCP/IP is essentially the same as FTF, and FTF is faster than PBEM.

I simply don't understand:
1) how you people cannot see that

Because some of us are professional programmers?

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
2) why so many pro-PBEMs are so anti-TCP/IP (why is the world so bi-everything?) There can be both you know.

Because programmers are pestered all day and night by end-users (such as the pro tcp/ip lobby here) who throw wild suggestions out into the world with justifications of "why not"....the why not in this case being that the end result will be almost no different to the model already presented and the amount of work required to prove this is extraordinary (huge!).

But look, you have now worked yourself up into a hysterical state over this. I've got no personal agenda here so I think I'll let it go at this point. If the pro tcpip lobby gets their way it won't be a bad thing for the PBEMers, just an additional thing, which is all good.

Cheers,
Moopere.

Hysterical state? LOL. No, I'm just stating the logical. I have little emotion wrapped up in the TCP/IP slash PBEM argument, it's just that to me it doesn't make sense not to have TCP/IP.

And when I said "programmers" I meant, yes, us professional programmers. I believe that there are quite a few here (and in the world nowadays I might add).

IMO, good programmers (software engineers) listen to "pesky end users" and don't have a negative attitude about it. If you aren't writing code for an end user as a professional programmer, then who are you writing code for?

I don't know how many professional programmers we have here.
What I know is that I am a professional programmer and anyone saying that an online TCP/IP game mode (or even worse, a client/server game mode) could be implemented "easily" starting from the present EiA is talking nonsense [8|].

Please note the keyword "easily" before starting a two page post to show us that it can be done. I already know it can be done, the point is the effort required.

But I'm only repeating what Marshall Ellis told you all, apparently to no avail.

And btw, the answer to the question "are you and a couple more here getting hysterical?" is definitely "yes".

TCP/IP should have been supported from the start.  Not instead of PBEM or hotseat, but alongside the two.  As this thread proves, there are almost as many preferences for type of multiplayer as there are players.

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

I don't know how many professional programmers we have here.
What I know is that I am a professional programmer and anyone saying that an online TCP/IP game mode (or even worse, a client/server game mode) could be implemented "easily" starting from the present EiA is talking nonsense [8|].

Please note the keyword "easily" before starting a two page post to show us that it can be done. I already know it can be done, the point is the effort required.

But I'm only repeating what Marshall Ellis told you all, apparently to no avail.

And btw, the answer to the question "are you and a couple more here getting hysterical?" is definitely "yes".

Han, no one is "getting hysterical", that's just silly drama talk.

I agree that it might not be "easy" but I don't think it would be "terribly difficult" either.

If Marshall has decided not to implement TCP/IP then that's fine. I guess I didn't get, or see, that post.

Funny you say that han, if PBEM is in place a client/server approach is doable and should not be so much work. After all it is just about redirecting emails from one socket to another. It would at least simplify the file management bits.

Now if we are talking about simultaneous move, that might be more complicated. However it might be interesting to play and could speed up the game.

Finally, if we are looking at a full MP game (kinda of a FtF over TCP/IP) then yes I agree with you the cost is high.

Is this game playable with 7 human players today? The answer is no. People will not be able to play a full game over 2 years.

Is this game playable with 7 human players today? The answer is no. People will not be able to play a full game over 2 years.

Why no? I'm playing with 7 players in 3 PBEM games.
A real, paranoid, wargamer is not scared by the idea of a 2 years game (or even 4...); I've played several 2 years game FtF (The Next War or World in Flames for example).

We'll probably never finish it, but who cares ? I'm having fun

I'll forego your comments about the client/server except for 1 thing: client / server architecture requires two completely different executables, you know ?

ORIGINAL: baboune

Funny you say that han, if PBEM is in place a client/server approach is doable and should not be so much work. After all it is just about redirecting emails from one socket to another. It would at least simplify the file management bits.

I love these people who always talk about how this can be done easily. Talk is cheap. If it is so easy, program it and send it on to Marshall.

That would be no problem.. Let's just ask Marshall to make the code open source.  It would be great!

ORIGINAL: baboune

That would be no problem.. Let's just ask Marshall to make the code open source.  It would be great!

LOL, yeah, I'm sure Matrix is more than willing to do that. LOL!!!

Seriously though, how awesome would that be? Answer: Pretty Awesome!!

I think Han hit the nail on the head as far as the playability of this PBEM game: who cares if you finish as long as you are having fun! That said, it's still a little depressing to realize that you are going to start a game you probably won't finish, or at least not with the same people you started it with.

Please, if you are truly a good programmer you can reverse engineer your way through the code - should be easy right? [:D]

ORIGINAL: Murat

Please, if you are truly a good programmer you can reverse engineer your way through the code - should be easy right? [:D]

Yeah, that is a funny joke!

Its not really needed for the normal gameflow.
 
But it could be nice for combat, and actually reduce people thinking others cheat.
TO make tcp/ip connection for battles which normally would require fileexchange. (Maybe even for all battles someday who knows).
Offcourse this could in one way speed 1 battle, but then again require both players avaible to do this at same hour.
 
Regards
Bresh