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RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:17 am
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: AU Tiger
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Don't forget you can always send out xAKs and xAPs to refuel carriers at sea, from their own fuel tanks.
Hmmm... I figured they probably "fixed" that. Thanks
It's difficult to tell, is there something about that that you feel needs "fixing"?
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:50 am
by AU Tiger_MatrixForum
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: AU Tiger
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
Don't forget you can always send out xAKs and xAPs to refuel carriers at sea, from their own fuel tanks.
Hmmm... I figured they probably "fixed" that. Thanks
It's difficult to tell, is there something about that that you feel needs "fixing"?
8000 fuel at Canton is nice to know. Thanks Cap.
As to the AK's replenishing naval ships, I always had a hard time swallowing that. I was part of the Sea & Anchor detail years ago during unreps, and I cannot imagine your run of the mill civilian ship was equipped to do that. Not a big deal at the end of the day though as far as the game is concerned.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:25 pm
by alaviner
ORIGINAL: AU Tiger
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
ORIGINAL: AU Tiger
Hmmm... I figured they probably "fixed" that. Thanks
It's difficult to tell, is there something about that that you feel needs "fixing"?
8000 fuel at Canton is nice to know. Thanks Cap.
As to the AK's replenishing naval ships, I always had a hard time swallowing that. I was part of the Sea & Anchor detail years ago during unreps, and I cannot imagine your run of the mill civilian ship was equipped to do that. Not a big deal at the end of the day though as far as the game is concerned.
I don't see a problem doing it in port but it is a little gamey at sea. In RL a port would have fuel barges to to do the dirty work.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:50 pm
by DOCUP
AU doing pretty good. Your getting a lot of good advice.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:23 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: NCSUforest
ORIGINAL: AU Tiger
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
It's difficult to tell, is there something about that that you feel needs "fixing"?
8000 fuel at Canton is nice to know. Thanks Cap.
As to the AK's replenishing naval ships, I always had a hard time swallowing that. I was part of the Sea & Anchor detail years ago during unreps, and I cannot imagine your run of the mill civilian ship was equipped to do that. Not a big deal at the end of the day though as far as the game is concerned.
I don't see a problem doing it in port but it is a little gamey at sea. In RL a port would have fuel barges to to do the dirty work.
On the other hand... didn't at least some cargo ships have the gear to do at-sea refueling/topping off of their shorter legged escorts? I mean, if you really want to talk abstractions in the engine, I can imagine a landing craft-equipped cargo ship using the little boats to transfer drums of fuel back and forth
. And I understand that your run of the mill xAK (or even TKs, hence the AO distinction) isn't going to have the fuel lines to do it, but did it really
never happen? Aren't there at least some real world instances?
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:23 pm
by AU Tiger_MatrixForum
11 December 1941
Percival Sacked!
Percival, CO of the Singapore bastion has been sacked in favor of General Robert Cassels, a fine old British warhorse:
Cassels was commissioned into the Indian Staff Corps as a second lieutenant on 22 January 1896.[1] He received promotion to lieutenant on 22 April 1898,[2] to captain on 22 January 1905[3] and to major on 22 January 1914.[4]
He went on to serve in World War I, receiving rapid and successive promotion to temporary lieutenant-colonel on 19 January 1916,[5] brevet lieutenant-colonel on 3 June 1916,[6] brevet colonel in June 1917[6] and to temporary brigadier-general on 6 August 1917.[7][8][9] In November 1917 he was appointed Commander of 11th Cavalry Brigade and took his brigade on a great turning movement up the left bank of the River Tigris, outflanking the Turks and helping to bring the Mesopotamian Campaign to an end.[10] Following the war, he briefly commanded the 18th Indian Division while it was stationed in the Middle East.[11]
Cassels was promoted to major-general on 1 January 1919[12] in the Cavalry in India when he was appointed Commander of Peshawar District.[9] He became Adjutant-General, India in 1928, and was promoted to lieutenant-general on 14 April (back-dated to 1 May 1927).[13][14] He was promoted to general on 15 October 1929[15] and appointed General Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Northern Command, India in 1930.[9] He was next made Commander-in-Chief, Indiaand a Member of the Executive Council of the Governor-General of India in 1935.[9] He continued in that post into World War II and retired in 1941.[9]
His key stats are about double what Percival’s are. I do need to remember to keep 150 PP in my pocket to replace him right before Singapore falls – I don’t want to lose this fellow. Speaking of Percival, I researched him some last night, and all I can say is “Wow!” Talk about the Peter Principal…..
I did some mucking about in China trying to consolidate some defenses in key cities – it is too soon yet to decipher what Skyros is up to there.
The Japanese are not wasting time in the SRA, within a turn or two the whole north coast of Borneo will be Japanese, I don’t know if I will have time to fortify Palembang like I want to. Heck, I am trying to find some Engineering units I can slip in there, but without much luck.
The Japanese have changed tactics in their air war in the PI, large Zero sweeps have just about eliminated the gallant heroes of the air there, I have stood them down for now. The Japanese figured out I was slipping shipping out to the east and have sunk many in surface actions.
Wake Island fell after a brief hard fought defense. We will avenge them in time.
Numerous Dutch, British, and American combat ships are converging on Soerbaja to top off their tanks, reorganize TF’s, and prepare to sally forth to contest the Japanese advances in the DEI, but unfortunately for them, air cover is sparse in the region.
Speaking of air cover, I am totally lost when it comes to pilot training and all of the different “reserves”, TRACOMS, etc. My priority is to get up to speed on this soon.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:09 pm
by Lokasenna
Another place I would look to fortify early on is Balikpapan. Until he can get his hands on Palembang, Balikpapan and Tarakan are must-haves for him. You can also leave unsuspected surprises at Boela and Babo, which are small but important sources of Oil. With Balikpapan's relative proximity to Soerabaja, you can conduct a fighting retreat there reasonably well.
For Allied air training, basically you just need to fill out your restricted units in CONUS and other backwaters. Set them to 100% training, Range 0. For those that don't withdraw in 1942, I would replace the group commanders with 55+ Leadership officers. The bigger the unit and the higher the Ld stat on the commander, the better. Overall, the word on the street is that the Allies will be swimming in good pilots by mid-war so I don't think you need to worry about it too much.
When your CVs are in port, set their units to training as well. If you have the patience to micromanage, I recommend filling them out completely with pilots (the extra 33%), even if the extras are recruits. You can send them to Group Reserve while the CVs are out on missions in order to prevent the recruits from flying in combat (I believe this works). If you really want to micromanage your CV airgroups, you can completely swap out the veterans for lower-Exp pilots from general reserve while in port. Before withdrawing or disbanding groups that need to withdraw, make sure you release all of the pilots to general reserve (some of these units don't disband to pools and are lost to you instead). If these pilots aren't yet "graduated" from your training regiment, pull them back in to other training units later as space becomes available rather than pulling new trainees from replacements.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:29 pm
by AU Tiger_MatrixForum
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Another place I would look to fortify early on is Balikpapan. Until he can get his hands on Palembang, Balikpapan and Tarakan are must-haves for him. You can also leave unsuspected surprises at Boela and Babo, which are small but important sources of Oil. With Balikpapan's relative proximity to Soerabaja, you can conduct a fighting retreat there reasonably well.
For Allied air training, basically you just need to fill out your restricted units in CONUS and other backwaters. Set them to 100% training, Range 0. For those that don't withdraw in 1942, I would replace the group commanders with 55+ Leadership officers. The bigger the unit and the higher the Ld stat on the commander, the better. Overall, the word on the street is that the Allies will be swimming in good pilots by mid-war so I don't think you need to worry about it too much.
When your CVs are in port, set their units to training as well. If you have the patience to micromanage, I recommend filling them out completely with pilots (the extra 33%), even if the extras are recruits. You can send them to Group Reserve while the CVs are out on missions in order to prevent the recruits from flying in combat (I believe this works). If you really want to micromanage your CV airgroups, you can completely swap out the veterans for lower-Exp pilots from general reserve while in port. Before withdrawing or disbanding groups that need to withdraw, make sure you release all of the pilots to general reserve (some of these units don't disband to pools and are lost to you instead). If these pilots aren't yet "graduated" from your training regiment, pull them back in to other training units later as space becomes available rather than pulling new trainees from replacements.
What does transferring the rookie pilots to the group reserve do? And what is the "group reserve?
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:30 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
On the other hand... didn't at least some cargo ships have the gear to do at-sea refueling/topping off of their shorter legged escorts? I mean, if you really want to talk abstractions in the engine, I can imagine a landing craft-equipped cargo ship using the little boats to transfer drums of fuel back and forth
. And I understand that your run of the mill xAK (or even TKs, hence the AO distinction) isn't going to have the fuel lines to do it, but did it really
never happen? Aren't there at least some real world instances?
My dad was a Corvette (KV) sailor during the war. It was necessary for the KVs to refuel from cargo ships during the Atlantic crossing. Sometimes there would be a tanker in the convoy that could transfer some fuel, but often it was just a cargo ship. The KV was usually lower in the water than the cargo ship. A high line would be rigged between them to pass over the hose from the escort. Then the fuel would be pumped - not sure which side had the pump, but likely the KV. Because the weather/sea state had to be reasonably calm, it was not unusual to refuel whenever the opportunity was present as the weather could prevent refuelling for days.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:06 pm
by AU Tiger_MatrixForum
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
On the other hand... didn't at least some cargo ships have the gear to do at-sea refueling/topping off of their shorter legged escorts? I mean, if you really want to talk abstractions in the engine, I can imagine a landing craft-equipped cargo ship using the little boats to transfer drums of fuel back and forth
. And I understand that your run of the mill xAK (or even TKs, hence the AO distinction) isn't going to have the fuel lines to do it, but did it really
never happen? Aren't there at least some real world instances?
My dad was a Corvette (KV) sailor during the war. It was necessary for the KVs to refuel from cargo ships during the Atlantic crossing. Sometimes there would be a tanker in the convoy that could transfer some fuel, but often it was just a cargo ship. The KV was usually lower in the water than the cargo ship. A high line would be rigged between them to pass over the hose from the escort. Then the fuel would be pumped - not sure which side had the pump, but likely the KV. Because the weather/sea state had to be reasonably calm, it was not unusual to refuel whenever the opportunity was present as the weather could prevent refuelling for days.
I stand corrected. Thanks
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:38 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
On the other hand... didn't at least some cargo ships have the gear to do at-sea refueling/topping off of their shorter legged escorts? I mean, if you really want to talk abstractions in the engine, I can imagine a landing craft-equipped cargo ship using the little boats to transfer drums of fuel back and forth
. And I understand that your run of the mill xAK (or even TKs, hence the AO distinction) isn't going to have the fuel lines to do it, but did it really
never happen? Aren't there at least some real world instances?
My dad was a Corvette (KV) sailor during the war. It was necessary for the KVs to refuel from cargo ships during the Atlantic crossing. Sometimes there would be a tanker in the convoy that could transfer some fuel, but often it was just a cargo ship. The KV was usually lower in the water than the cargo ship. A high line would be rigged between them to pass over the hose from the escort. Then the fuel would be pumped - not sure which side had the pump, but likely the KV. Because the weather/sea state had to be reasonably calm, it was not unusual to refuel whenever the opportunity was present as the weather could prevent refuelling for days.
With a height differential, they could just siphon the fuel... siphoning works with gravity.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:44 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: AU Tiger
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Another place I would look to fortify early on is Balikpapan. Until he can get his hands on Palembang, Balikpapan and Tarakan are must-haves for him. You can also leave unsuspected surprises at Boela and Babo, which are small but important sources of Oil. With Balikpapan's relative proximity to Soerabaja, you can conduct a fighting retreat there reasonably well.
For Allied air training, basically you just need to fill out your restricted units in CONUS and other backwaters. Set them to 100% training, Range 0. For those that don't withdraw in 1942, I would replace the group commanders with 55+ Leadership officers. The bigger the unit and the higher the Ld stat on the commander, the better. Overall, the word on the street is that the Allies will be swimming in good pilots by mid-war so I don't think you need to worry about it too much.
When your CVs are in port, set their units to training as well. If you have the patience to micromanage, I recommend filling them out completely with pilots (the extra 33%), even if the extras are recruits. You can send them to Group Reserve while the CVs are out on missions in order to prevent the recruits from flying in combat (I believe this works). If you really want to micromanage your CV airgroups, you can completely swap out the veterans for lower-Exp pilots from general reserve while in port. Before withdrawing or disbanding groups that need to withdraw, make sure you release all of the pilots to general reserve (some of these units don't disband to pools and are lost to you instead). If these pilots aren't yet "graduated" from your training regiment, pull them back in to other training units later as space becomes available rather than pulling new trainees from replacements.
What does transferring the rookie pilots to the group reserve do? And what is the "group reserve?
It is my understanding that when you put a pilot into the group reserve, they will not fly (/perform the group's assigned mission) until you take them out of group reserve. I do not know if they are automatically pulled from the group reserve to active status if the group does not have enough active pilots to fill all of the airframes. Pilot numbers is something I check fairly often, so I haven't been willing/able to test that question.
E.g., if you have a VMF unit with 18 planes, you can have 18 active pilots and 6 other pilots sitting in the group reserve (where, if you just put them into group reserve and they have a Delay of 1, they will show in parentheses on the main air unit screen). I know they are not pulled into active duty if you have enough other active pilots, as several of the USN CV airgroups have good pilot-commanders (Thach, etc.) and I don't want to pay PPs to take them out of the pilot list (so they don't get KIA). I pull an extra pilot into the group and put the commander in group reserve. Unless I run low on pilots, the commander stays in group reserve and never flies, while still contributing their skill levels to the group. Inspiration for number of planes flying, Air for A2A combat, etc.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:48 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
On the other hand... didn't at least some cargo ships have the gear to do at-sea refueling/topping off of their shorter legged escorts? I mean, if you really want to talk abstractions in the engine, I can imagine a landing craft-equipped cargo ship using the little boats to transfer drums of fuel back and forth
. And I understand that your run of the mill xAK (or even TKs, hence the AO distinction) isn't going to have the fuel lines to do it, but did it really
never happen? Aren't there at least some real world instances?
My dad was a Corvette (KV) sailor during the war. It was necessary for the KVs to refuel from cargo ships during the Atlantic crossing. Sometimes there would be a tanker in the convoy that could transfer some fuel, but often it was just a cargo ship. The KV was usually lower in the water than the cargo ship. A high line would be rigged between them to pass over the hose from the escort. Then the fuel would be pumped - not sure which side had the pump, but likely the KV. Because the weather/sea state had to be reasonably calm, it was not unusual to refuel whenever the opportunity was present as the weather could prevent refuelling for days.
With a height differential, they could just siphon the fuel... siphoning works with gravity.
Yeah, but who are you gonna get to suck on the hose to start the siphon going?[:D]
And with the KV bobbing like a cork, the height differential might be inconsistent in all but the calmest seas.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:19 pm
by AU Tiger_MatrixForum
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
My dad was a Corvette (KV) sailor during the war. It was necessary for the KVs to refuel from cargo ships during the Atlantic crossing. Sometimes there would be a tanker in the convoy that could transfer some fuel, but often it was just a cargo ship. The KV was usually lower in the water than the cargo ship. A high line would be rigged between them to pass over the hose from the escort. Then the fuel would be pumped - not sure which side had the pump, but likely the KV. Because the weather/sea state had to be reasonably calm, it was not unusual to refuel whenever the opportunity was present as the weather could prevent refuelling for days.
With a height differential, they could just siphon the fuel... siphoning works with gravity.
Yeah, but who are you gonna get to suck on the hose to start the siphon going?[:D]
And with the KV bobbing like a cork, the height differential might be inconsistent in all but the calmest seas.
Generally fuel bunkers are very low on a ship for stability reasons, I seriously doubt you would have any kind of potential energy difference.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:33 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: AU Tiger
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
With a height differential, they could just siphon the fuel... siphoning works with gravity.
Yeah, but who are you gonna get to suck on the hose to start the siphon going?[:D]
And with the KV bobbing like a cork, the height differential might be inconsistent in all but the calmest seas.
Generally fuel bunkers are very low on a ship for stability reasons, I seriously doubt you would have any kind of potential energy difference.
Oh yeah. Ok, scratch that...
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:22 pm
by AU Tiger_MatrixForum
In studying the map I have decided embark on an unusual strategic route for the subjugation of Japan:
Stage 1: Build bases in and fortify the Aleutians.
Stage 2: Take and/or negate the Kuriles simultaneously with taking the Japanese bases of Sakhalin Island.
Stage 3: Invade Hokkaido.
This will take time to develop, especially Stage 1, so I will have to demonstrate in other theaters, but the Northern Route will be my path to victory. With any luck, he won't spot my buildup too soon.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:57 pm
by BBfanboy
I can see the first two stages catching him off guard, but the last one will be hard to stage as a surprise. I am not sure what he can transfer to Hokkaido when Sakhalin is invaded, but I would expect the reaction to be pretty severe, especially by aircraft and subs.
A credible feint will be needed elsewhere to suck his assets somewhere far away.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:15 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I can see the first two stages catching him off guard, but the last one will be hard to stage as a surprise. I am not sure what he can transfer to Hokkaido when Sakhalin is invaded, but I would expect the reaction to be pretty severe, especially by aircraft and subs.
A credible feint will be needed elsewhere to suck his assets somewhere far away.
I nominate somewhere as far away from the Northern Route as possible, like in the DEI area. Or the South Pacific.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:35 pm
by AU Tiger_MatrixForum
I just looked at the starting Japanese OOB, and Hokkaido and Sakhalin are remarkably lightly defended. Of course I won't be able to scout them ahead of time for risk of giving up the game, but I may seriously consider a simultaneous invasion of both - I am thinking early summer of '43. Carriers in the Sea of Okhotsk could support both at the same time. I would absolutely flood Japanese waters with submarines also.
I could take a couple of the islands with raider battalions with seaplane tenders right behind them. I could have PBY's up quickly. The more I think about this, the better I like it.
As for the diversion location I will keep an open mind; who knows what the map will be looking like then.....
Now I just need Skyros to hurry up and send me the turn so I can start sending engineers northward.
RE: Western Civilization in Grave Danger - AU Tiger (A) vs. Skyros (J)
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:17 am
by geofflambert
Your question is still interesting in terms of xAKs refueling cruisers and larger ships. I spent a little time looking into that and so far have only found instances of DDs being refueled. I think the CVs might have had the gear for it, but I'm not even sure about that, as you might imagine the pumps would normally be located on the donor ships. There is also some question in my mind as to whether the Japanese capabilities in this regard were equivalent to the US (I'm deliberately excluding the other allies, though Australia was somewhat more advanced than the rest).