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RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T41 Soviet pics
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:32 pm
by Peltonx
ORIGINAL: chaos45
IDK I feel my "bitching and whining" has all been over one issue- lack of combat attrition/casualties- this is for both sides.
I dont expect my Cav corps/tank corps/infantry units to walk away from blunting a German offensive in great shape either lol. What I would expect is the Germans get a bloody nose/reduce their cutting edge units with casualties and my counterattack forces also get a bloody nose from attacking German Armor thats what I would expect.
A full on confrontation between 2 Army groups over a major city should easily result in 50k+ losses per week. If one army group just ran away and did a delaying action could understand only 10-15k losses a week but not for a full on offensive/counter-offensive by forces of that scale.
Will concurr on the casualty issue mainly benefiting the side on the attack, which is why its a huge bonus for Germany in 41/42 but then in 43+ it turns into a huge bonus for the Soviets. That goes along with my other stated issue of to many things baked into the system auto giving advantages to make things work.
As I have said before it does seem we have a roughly historical match going on territory wise- loss wise we are both lower than historical but thats the combat engine.
Also just an aside but if Germany can win the war by the winter of 1941 why shouldn't the Soviets be able to do better than historical and win in 1944? just a thought. IDK about winning in the summer of 1944 but for sure in all realism the Soviets if they had been more aggressive and managed their forces/priorities slightly different might have been able to take Berlin in the winter of 1944 esp since all the German reserves were stupidly being committed to the Bulge.
I'll make further comments on our game as we get ahead of the turns we are in, as I have my thoughts on how operations were conducted by both sides as well.
The combat result you want simply are not possible and have been posted 100 times before, but keep on posting.
Also you have been cutting me down every turn, as my offensives are getting smaller and smaller.
But as always if you lose a hex or a divsions its the end of the world.
The German offensive is running out of steam, but why tell people that when you can keep on whining like your losing 1,000,000 men a turn.
Finish the yr sonny your a newbie and know zip about the engine other then you hate it because you have 2,000,000
MORE men then historical.
Quote" casualty issue mainly benefiting the side on the attack,"
Wow that's like 3 yr old news, the combat engine is mainly based on retreat loses!!!!
AND here is some more old news Gary Grigsby designed the game to reward the attacker !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO what your whining about is 100% by design its not going to change and never will change
BECAUSE
WitW combat engine is based on the same design and so will WitE 2.0
The game by design will have the same result as historical, the German offensive will grind to a halt all things being equal.
Now seeing its not just how you want it to go, does not mean the game broken it works as designed and has the same historical results.
If you don't like it that's your problem find another game or call Gary up.
This is a game not a book, your not Stalin and I am not Hitler.
This issue has been posted more then once and the answer to the question is WAD and works great.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T41 Soviet pics
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:38 pm
by chaos45
Pelton, the issue is the casualties are to low for both sides....it's why u have ballpark 750k extra men over historical and I'm sitting 1-2M over historical.
If this was fixed and attacker losses magnified you would see the German offensives slowly wind down from losses in late 1942 then the soviet offensives of 43+ would go in spurts as after An advance the losses would deplete their formations to the point they needed a couple weeks to recover this gaining a more realistic effect for both armies. My comments aren't just meant to nerf Germans.
My complaints are to try and reach realism, they still look at this forum I'm sure for development of WITE2
I think you overstate my issues with the game based on Internet speak lol.
As to your summer offensive I'll give my critique later.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:38 pm
by chaos45
T49 He makes some progress in the north- this has proven so far just an annoyance.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:39 pm
by chaos45
T49 center slow grinding attacks forward still for the Soviets forcing the Germans to deploy more infantry formations.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:40 pm
by chaos45
T49- Tula/strategic reserves sector- I figured Pelton wouldnt drive deep into Russia without securing his flank at Tula- my hunch proves perfectly correct as he launches a massive assault into this sector later.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:41 pm
by chaos45
T49- South- a decent encirclement I cant really do anything about so do a staged retreat- positioning the Shock armies to contest his next assault.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:42 pm
by chaos45
T49- Crimea- quiet sector.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:47 pm
by chaos45
T50- main show by Rostov- Shock army counter-attacks his next encirclement move-3 stinging attacks that force him to commit his entire armored force to eventually seal this pocket.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:47 pm
by chaos45
attack 2
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:48 pm
by chaos45
attack 3-
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:01 pm
by chaos45
T51- Rostov only real action- Shock army continues to keep the pocket open.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:03 pm
by chaos45
T52- North continued annoyance.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:04 pm
by chaos45
T52- Moscow- we keep pounding forward against German infantry.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:05 pm
by chaos45
T52- South central some small action
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:06 pm
by chaos45
T52 upper south?- Tank front shifts to cover this area and prepare for counterattacks.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T49 Soviet pics
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:08 pm
by chaos45
T52- Rostov- he locks the encirclement getting 1 cav corps that didnt move far enough last turn- I considered it mission success as it took him 3 weeks to lock that pocket- and alot of losses. My forces back off to defend Stalingrad.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T53 Soviet pics
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:23 am
by chaos45
T53- He shifts all of his armor north of the Don- didnt really get this move as he had me off balance by Stalingrad and most of my forces not entrenched.....Personally feel this was a bad move on his part as he could easily have gotten to Stalingrad I think. He attempts to pocket me and instead I pocket some of his forces for a brief moment. This also means he switched from hitting 2 shock armies that were already somewhat battered to hitting into 2 full strength shock armies backed by alot of tank corps.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T53 Soviet pics
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:32 am
by chaos45
T54- he does a big swing trying to encircle an entire front- was abit ambitious as the blocking hexes at the back were only garrisoned with CV 5-6 motorized divisions so I retreat two of them and rout the one in the middle and move all my corps to keep it open, as well as zocing most of his supply lines to restrict his ability to resupply. I have found that once you zoc up supply lines with 2+ zocs it greatly limits opposing forces to re-supply well.
Also as you can see I aggressively close up on his infantry left at Rostov and move both Shock armies from the Stalingrad area to assist against his encirclement operation. So now he is facing 4x shock armies(17 Cav corps) and a Tank front with approx 15 tank corps.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T53 Soviet pics
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:41 am
by chaos45
T55- Pocket battle continues- lack of supply limits his attacks and my forces widen the opening and I get all worthwhile units clear- just leave units inside to keep a zoc on his supply lines to keep limiting his movement points. Was a couple big push backs against stacks of German forces.
RE: Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton- T56 Soviet pics
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:46 am
by chaos45
T56- he gets a good jump forward surrounding several divisions and a bunch of BDEs- nothing important and again I consider it a win overall as it took him a ton of losses and 3 turn to lock in an encirclement. Also the bonus to all this fighting is Im often capturing almost 1K German trucks from counterattacks on his mobile formations [8D]
My forces drop back to pull him more east if he so chooses.
