Matrix Games Forums

Ok, if your idea of fun is just fooling around, I can understand that, but for me this is the Most Gladful I Avoided Game of the Year Award.

Vague rules, no hard data >>> parody of a Wargame.

Any updates?

I'd like to see an LOS tool first, depending on how hard each tool is to program.

This is one of the few (if any) wargames that does not hold my hand with a percentage-type tool, so I actually prefer it that way. Would need to be an option of course so everyone is pleased.

TotH is my favorite game for a lot of reasons especially for the lack of stats. I feel more like a commander in the field having to make tough choices with FOG being a significant factor as to do I or don't I. There's nothing like a game of TotH after a few beers with my tunes playing in the background and not having to crunch numbers or constantly looking stuff up. That just sobers me up too quick and gets the rulebook sticky. Very thankful for Peter's efforts in developing this game and for his continued interest in making it better. SeeYa!

I have started work on the adding percentage tool. Example: when you select say for example your side Tiger tank, all the enemy unit hexes in LOS will show information of what are the odds of scoring a hit on a target hex. It will show the AP as well as HE information, including special rounds like APCR, APDS and HEAT assuming the firing unit has the capability of firing special ammunition. The percentage tool will be the main focus of UPDATE3, the feature will only be available when scenario difficulty is set to EASY or NORMAL.

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

Example: when you select say for example your side Tiger tank, all the enemy unit hexes in LOS will show information of what are the odds of scoring a hit on a target hex.

Hitting a Tiger has never been a very difficult task; killing it is just another matter, however [;)]

Like Hailstone, I also think calculating the "perfect shot" takes out much of the fun, but when AFVs/Ordnance are involved I think the troops had a rough idea of the capabilities of their weapons. By way of example, some time ago I killed a Panther with front hit from a Russian 76mm gun, but I had no way of knowing if it was a lucky (critical) hit or if that gun could reasonably kill a Panther (it cannot, as I discovered when I replayed the same scenario with version 1.0.51 and managed to place five hits on the Panther, all of them bouncing away [:(])

A listing of the piercing capability of the various guns and of the armor values of AFVs would also be a nice addition.

I love the potential of this game and want to do more AAR vs the AI. Matrix forum platform makes it annoying to do graphical AAR, unfortunately. I'll do them on a review site I'm working with.

Once this game has the following; it will be up to snuff with other games out there and please listen developers, whether you like it or not, this game needs this stuff most urgently to compete with other computer games out there:

the percentage tool (yes yes!)
zoom screen (it's ancient to NOT have this)
re-stacking position chosen by the player
friendlier UI for fire and move selection
full view of movement range when a unit is clicked on (don't make us refer back to ASL rules for ANY reason)
a manual which clearly differentiates the game from ASL so that you don't have to know ASL to play the game.

All of this before other nationalities, before multilevel buildings, before bypass movement, etc.

What I do notice is that too much critiquing of the game can be met with what seems like stony silence if you do speak up, but I don't care to be acknowledged, as long as remarks are taken into consideration.

Let me also say that true ASL purists, as they have been called, won't touch this game because they think it's a ripoff of ASL. They don't want it to be successful. See the BGG forum. I disagree with this attitude, simply because porting a game like this to a computerized system is something the ASL publisher could have done long ago, but didn't. There is no design patent on ASL as far as I know, but the more the game distances itself from being an ASL knock-off the better -- in my opinion.

Thanks marcdhanna. We listen to all critics and do tries to make good development changes. Peter has concentrated on Bugs for the first two Updates but will do more feature additions in Update 3.

"The percentage tool will be the main focus of UPDATE3, the feature will only be available when scenario difficulty is set to EASY or NORMAL."

I hope this option will be optional because I play most of the time at normal level and I do not want to see percentages pollute my line of shooting!

Thanks Peter

ORIGINAL: rico21

"The percentage tool will be the main focus of UPDATE3, the feature will only be available when scenario difficulty is set to EASY or NORMAL."

I hope this option will be optional because I play most of the time at normal level and I do not want to see percentages pollute my line of shooting!

Thanks Peter

Yes, it will a button on the game toolbar

ORIGINAL: Paullus

Thanks marcdhanna. We listen to all critics and do tries to make good development changes. Peter has concentrated on Bugs for the first two Updates but will do more feature additions in Update 3.

Paullus,

Now I'm surprised to see that DLC are coming out, without these feature improvements being addressed first? Perhaps I'm wrong about this??

Personally I can't justify buying DLC for the game until this other stuff is upgraded. I really think concentrating on feature additions would make spending (even more) money on DLC very attractive. Now, unless the price is very cheap for DLC, I can't [edit] put money into it.

Of course I haven't seen pricing, release dates etc. but the definite impression is that the DLC is coming before Update 3. I'm sure none of my remarks will affect the fans who rave about the game no matter what state it is in, but don't people think this Kursk module will be a lot more attractive with more features, especially PBEM? It's not as if the AI can be counted on to give a good enough fight as of yet. The Slitherine PBEM system seems pretty good to work with on other games.

Anyway thanks for listening.

cheers Marc

Features are coming but take time. Many of theme will be there without being a DLC but rather in bigger UPDATES.

The way I see it and what makes perfectly good business sense to me is that Matrix Games is in business to make money!

If they don't make money hey guess what, they won't be in business very long and if that happens; the thing is this, nothing will be supported.

So if DLC is to come before minor/major updates to any game then I'm fine with it.

Just my opinion.

Thanks!

ORIGINAL: Big Ivan

The way I see it and what makes perfectly good business sense to me is that Matrix Games is in business to make money!

If they don't make money hey guess what, they won't be in business very long and if that happens; the thing is this, nothing will be supported.

So if DLC is to come before minor/major updates to any game then I'm fine with it.

Just my opinion.

Thanks!

What you say about sustainability is actually a point we agree upon. DLC with more features can be priced higher and still garner new players. Let me emphasize that -- new players from other computer games that check it out and, as it stands decline to purchase. Such players who decline to purchase the base game won't come back to it because there is/are DLC with the same lack of features.

We see posts from those who won't buy this now, and those are the ones who bother to post.

At the moment, Matrix seems to be counting on fans of the game to pay for DLC, no matter what. Well, Matrix should be informed that this is not necessarily the case.

Growth of new players is what will sustain over the long term for long term support.

Matrix can make whatever business decisions they want, of course And if you want to pay 30$ for this new DLC, then go ahead. I'll pay 30$ when the features are loaded and the game is not so dependent upon ASL. Or I'll pay $2 just to say I have it, and tinker with it a few times.

For example, without the feature for calculating combat odds, guess what? To play this DLC, I will need to have the ASL charts at my side to figure out kill probabilities. Now, there may be a lot of players who will do this Kursk battle as a short of shoot-out at the OK corral, probably because they don't own ASL and don't worry about kill probabilities over a vast tank battlefield.

But how good is that going to be? imo, it's not as great as it could be, were the system to be upgraded.

I'll continue to press for feature upgrades that detach this game from ASL instead of continuing to rely upon it and make money off the ASL system. ASL has done dozens of scenarios about Kursk already. Which is probably why the marketing plan to make this into a campaign style -- that, at least does differentiate it from ASL somewhat. But not enough atm.

I'll put my money into ASL stuff that's coming out. That is, until this simulation cuts it's own suit of clothes, at which point I'll put DLC money into it at a higher price and probably less into ASL. Meanwhile, other computer gamers will pay for games they can use the PBEM system with, or play online real time, or play with better AI, and any combination of the above.

Matrix could make money off the system on it's own merits apart from ASL, and that should be a priority. Make money so people can play the game by PBEM enjoyably, and not rely on a thwarting AI to perform or not as the case may be from situation to situation.

[:D]

Essentially, what we have here is a "failure to communicate". TotH is not SL/ASL but we want it to be and why not. It pretty much follows ASL yet without it's nuances due to so many limitations in unit capabilities like smoke, concealment, etc. A decision needs to be communicated as to the future of this game as whether it will become more ASL like or drift into something else maybe as a result of copyright influences. TotH has no future if it is going to rely on an aging ASL market and its associated nostalgia. There's nothing to attract new and younger players primarily for their lack of experience with board games in the digital age. Additionally, I believe TotH needs most is a much more detailed manual which addresses most of the issues I keep seeing in the forum. I thoroughly enjoy this game but for how long? More and larger scenarios will not sustain me without game enhancements and more eye candy (like flames with flamethrowers or better explosion graphics). I avoid large scenarios yet that's all we are getting with the new DLC, really?

Rico21, It took a couple of reads of your French TotH advertisement but then I caught the advanced knowledge requirement and I busted out laughing.

I believe the developer has clearly stated a number of times this is not ASL. That doesn't mean he can't smooth out the sometimes clunky interface and some other obvious issues. To me, easy check of LOS is the most basic. Something Tiller accomplished almost two decades ago. Even so, at least the units you can fire on are highlighted!

These issues don't kill the game for me, as it is fun nonetheless, and I realize this is a small shop. We have also gotten about $100 of free DLC from Rico and his friends [:)]

ORIGINAL: rosseau

I believe the developer has clearly stated a number of times this is not ASL. That doesn't mean he can't smooth out the sometimes clunky interface and some other obvious issues. To me, easy check of LOS is the most basic. Something Tiller accomplished almost two decades ago. Even so, at least the units you can fire on are highlighted!

These issues don't kill the game for me, as it is fun nonetheless, and I realize this is a small shop. We have also gotten about $100 of free DLC from Rico and his friends [:)]

Your points are spot on. Free DLC (plus a few unnecessary mocking jokes [:'(])

The developer MUST officially say this is not ASL. Nevertheless it uses plenty of the same mechanisms, the site advertises mods using figures from VASL, and I can use ASLRB rules to figure things out in how to play it.

ORIGINAL: Hailstone

Essentially, what we have here is a "failure to communicate". TotH is not SL/ASL but we want it to be and why not. It pretty much follows ASL yet without it's nuances due to so many limitations in unit capabilities like smoke, concealment, etc. A decision needs to be communicated as to the future of this game as whether it will become more ASL like or drift into something else maybe as a result of copyright influences. TotH has no future if it is going to rely on an aging ASL market and its associated nostalgia. There's nothing to attract new and younger players primarily for their lack of experience with board games in the digital age. Additionally, I believe TotH needs most is a much more detailed manual which addresses most of the issues I keep seeing in the forum. I thoroughly enjoy this game but for how long? More and larger scenarios will not sustain me without game enhancements and more eye candy (like flames with flamethrowers or better explosion graphics). I avoid large scenarios yet that's all we are getting with the new DLC, really?

Very good points.

[:D]