Matrix Games Forums

Turn 41
5th February 1941

Looks like this game is going to be a short one! A lot of air attacks by the Italians against anything that moves.

The 7th Armoured and 70th Divisions then take huge losses in trying to take on a couple of seemingly weak Italian units. The Italians have been able to form a solid line 2 or 3 lines deep from Derna to Mechili and they all look to be fortified.

If the British wait for units to be in full supply then the Australians will have disappeared, so they attacked early after a few rounds of bombardments and get mullered. Mmmmm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 41 - Axis Turn
5th February 1941

I think I will simply disband the RAF and create RAF Field Divisions. Sorry but that is rather pathetic. As advised, I will move all air units to Alexandria and place on rest.

What a jolly great idea! You could form the Warspite para panzer armored division.

Turn 42 - Axis Turn
8th February 1941

I can only assume I wasn't bold enough at the start of the game, although was only fractionally behind historical timing. The Italians have a thick wall of well dug-in infantry in the Jebel which are totally impenetrable, and that massively out-number the CW units. All of the latter need time to re-supply.

I have only four basic units, and I lose one of those shortly and a second within the next 10 turns. I can't move without being attacked from the air and my air force has been forced to retreat to Alexandria in order to stop being destroyed.

Something of a challenge! I guess I will just have to just throw whatever I have at the Italian lines WWI stylee and see what happens. If I sit and wait for the Germans then I get destroyed anyway, so I might as well make a game of it and allow the Italians the honour [:)]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 41 - Axis Turn
5th February 1941

I think I will simply disband the RAF and create RAF Field Divisions. Sorry but that is rather pathetic. As advised, I will move all air units to Alexandria and place on rest.

What a jolly great idea! You could form the Warspite para panzer armored division.

warspite1

Panzer? We're British... and I was talking about the RAF....and they would have neither tanks nor be paratroop trained, but apart from that you've come up with exactly what I was thinking of? [:D]

The Germans had the Luftwaffe Field Divisions. I was thinking of something more snazy, more immediate, more punchy. How about:

The RAF ground and air crew that became redundant because the Regia Aeronautica suddenly got the best air force in the world and so the Desert air force personnel were turned into footsloggers to help the desperate situation on the ground... Divisions [:)].

Don't do it Warspite, it would mean that they all become Rock Apes, and that would be a bad thing for the world!!

On a more serious note, switch off the Air Assistant if you haven't already. It just loves attacking enemy airfields and that might be why you are losing so much kit in furballs - they are probably being intercepted over enemy airspace on the way in or back from such missions. I know it is a bit of extra work but maybe limit the range of your fighters and bombers to just cover the front lines for air support whilst the Italians have superiority?

I'm loving both of your AAR's by the way, I'm playing a PBEM of this campaign (but we started in the version after the ceasfire ends) at the moment and they are helping out a lot.

ORIGINAL: IainF

Don't do it Warspite, it would mean that they all become Rock Apes, and that would be a bad thing for the world!!

On a more serious note, switch off the Air Assistant if you haven't already. It just loves attacking enemy airfields and that might be why you are losing so much kit in furballs - they are probably being intercepted over enemy airspace on the way in or back from such missions. I know it is a bit of extra work but maybe limit the range of your fighters and bombers to just cover the front lines for air support whilst the Italians have superiority?

I'm loving both of your AAR's by the way, I'm playing a PBEM of this campaign (but we started in the version after the ceasfire ends) at the moment and they are helping out a lot.

warspite1

Hi Iain. Yes I have the Air Assistant to off (I like to be in control [:)]) but I've noticed that when I get the turn back, all my orders have changed. So for example last turn my units were all at rest. At the start of the next turn I find they all have new orders and I have to switch back. I don't mind doing that - what I do mind is that during the Axis turn my units may not be resting but being furballed or suffering losses for no good reason i.e. I want them on the ground.

I hope my AAR are useful in showing you how a numpty goes to war and so what not to do!

If you fancy a PBEM of this scenario anytime please let me know.

....and here is an example of what I mean. Air Assistant was off - all units at rest, I then get the turn back and....

Turn 43
12th February 1941

The Italians continue to pound the troops in the trenches and foxholes but that is nothing compared to the Regia Aeronautica. I've stopped all non-essential movement but Private Tommy Hapgood of the Coldstream Guards accidentally farted and the entire RA descended upon him and his regiment....

A battery of anti-tank gunners was wiped out by an attack too.

Turn 43
12th February 1941

At Mechili I try and maintain the pressure but the losses being suffered are huge. A mixed force of Kiwis and 7th Armoured units push the Italians back from Mechili - only for a mechanised unit to move back in....

That battalion then single-handedly holds off the entire Kiwi and armoured divisions attack with more heavy losses.

I'll post a picture of the position next turn. I keep forgetting to do it which means you can't go back and get one in a PBEM once you've sent the turn back.

you can't go back and get one in a PBEM once you've sent the turn back.

Are you guys using the PBEM++ system or are you using the old fashioned way? The reason
I ask is that the new way writes a file on your hard drive in the saves folder when
you do your turn and the old fashioned way writes an END_OF_TURN_DO_NOT_SEND.pbl file
when you end your turn. Unless something has changed. Am I wrong?

Warspite:

Might be a bug then, I'll pay attention to mine and see if that's happening too.

On the Reg. A. and their seemingly hard hitting ways: it might be because there are lots of bombers in their force and hence can get a lot of interdiction going on. Also, I believe (and I might be wrong), that if they attack an airfield the planes based there will try and get 'up' before getting hit on the ground and that might be when they get whacked in furballs? I've taken a few hits like that myself in my game (and I'm the Axis player) and am also trying to get my head around it.

I'd love a game too, but if you want to wait I fully understand - my preference would be to start at the beginning of the campaign though and will gladly take the Axis (unless you fancy a change?). PM me when you want to start.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 42 - Axis Turn
8th February 1941

I can only assume I wasn't bold enough at the start of the game, although was only fractionally behind historical timing. The Italians have a thick wall of well dug-in infantry in the Jebel which are totally impenetrable, and that massively out-number the CW units. All of the latter need time to re-supply.

I got the impression that you let your opponent capture Sidi Barrani back on turn five - perhaps not wanting the game to end early. Regardless, once you knew that the Cease Fire was not canceled, you should have fought like mad to hold it. It appeared to me that your opponent didn't commit his entire force to its capture, and you needed to have forced him to do so, in order to make him put his entire head into the noose. As a result, he retained far more of 10th Army than he should have.

The good news is that none of the Axis stuff that started the game on the map will reconstitute. So, whenever they are eliminated, you won't ever see them again. They will be a serious problem, but this is a very long scenario, and IF you can hold out, the odds favor you in the end. Just remember that force preservation trumps the value of any terrain. Don't hesitate to run like hell if you need to. The El Alamein position is very strong - especially if you've not gotten the fleet sunk. (In other words, don't squander it defending Tobruk!)

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 42 - Axis Turn
8th February 1941

I can only assume I wasn't bold enough at the start of the game, although was only fractionally behind historical timing. The Italians have a thick wall of well dug-in infantry in the Jebel which are totally impenetrable, and that massively out-number the CW units. All of the latter need time to re-supply.

I got the impression that you let your opponent capture Sidi Barrani back on turn five - perhaps not wanting the game to end early. Regardless, once you knew that the Cease Fire was not canceled, you should have fought like mad to hold it. It appeared to me that your opponent didn't commit his entire force to its capture, and you needed to have forced him to do so, in order to make him put his entire head into the noose. As a result, he retained far more of 10th Army than he should have.

The good news is that none of the Axis stuff that started the game on the map will reconstitute. So, whenever they are eliminated, you won't ever see them again. They will be a serious problem, but this is a very long scenario, and IF you can hold out, the odds favor you in the end. Just remember that force preservation trumps the value of any terrain. Don't hesitate to run like hell if you need to. The El Alamein position is very strong - especially if you've not gotten the fleet sunk. (In other words, don't squander it defending Tobruk!)

warspite1

Yeah that's how it happened [:D]

No not at all, I garrisoned it and put a road block in the way thinking that would be enough. Of course with hindsight I would have just pulled back my units east of Buq Buq and formed a more sensible cordon around Sidi Barani but..... no one ever complemented me for my brains....

As for what he committed, obviously I only have part of the story, but perhaps 2-3 divisions iirc were not involved in the frontier battles that I saw in my first AAR (that said I don't know if the OOB is different for the Italians (like it is for the British) in a PBEM vs an AI game).

Thanks for the advice and the 'morale booster'. If its not too late I'll try and extricate them from the their latest fine mess I've gotten' them into....

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 41 - Axis Turn
5th February 1941

I think I will simply disband the RAF and create RAF Field Divisions. Sorry but that is rather pathetic. As advised, I will move all air units to Alexandria and place on rest.

What a jolly great idea! You could form the Warspite para panzer armored division.

warspite1

Panzer? We're British... and I was talking about the RAF....and they would have neither tanks nor be paratroop trained, but apart from that you've come up with exactly what I was thinking of? [:D]

The Germans had the Luftwaffe Field Divisions. I was thinking of something more snazy, more immediate, more punchy. How about:

The RAF ground and air crew that became redundant because the Regia Aeronautica suddenly got the best air force in the world and so the Desert air force personnel were turned into footsloggers to help the desperate situation on the ground... Divisions [:)].

I was referring to the The 'Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 Hermann Göring', which later became a corps.
It is a game problem because there is no NATO symbol for panzer parachute. [;)]

A Merlin engine would look good in a Matilda...

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

you can't go back and get one in a PBEM once you've sent the turn back.

Are you guys using the PBEM++ system or are you using the old fashioned way? The reason
I ask is that the new way writes a file on your hard drive in the saves folder when
you do your turn and the old fashioned way writes an END_OF_TURN_DO_NOT_SEND.pbl file
when you end your turn. Unless something has changed. Am I wrong?

warspite1

Sorry Larry - missed this post. We are using PBEM++.

As to the rest of your post er I can see the words but all I'm getting is blah blah blah. Sorry you are talking to a computing (and wargaming) ignoramus [:(]

Turn 44
15th February 1941

Sorry but after that Windows monster Update inspired delay, we are back. And so are the Italian airforce - although pleasingly they seem to have got a smack this time while attacking elements of 7th Armoured.

As promised here is the big picture. Now imagine most of those red units disappearing in the next few turns....ouch!

Turn 44
15th February 1941

The air assistant continues to do its thing, so I turn it off again and place all units to rest.

The 7th Armoured and 2nd Armoured take Mechili and Agedabia respectively, but then the turn ends and its fair to say that the British grasp on the former is er... tenuous...

Turn 45
19th February 1941

The Italians continue to destroy the units of the 7th Armoured at will with only a tiny fraction of their forces. I tried to take the game to the Italians but now the New Zealanders have gone I will be lucky to get many of the 7th Armoured out of there.

The supply situation is dreadful - even the Australians that sat just off the main road for 3-4 turns barely recovered. Not that it matters as the Australians will start disappearing in two turns so they too withdraw before the collapse of 7th Armoured results in them being surrounded.

Same problems on the 2nd Armoured front. The Ariete have arrived and are simply moving around the handful of British units to cut them off. Getting any units back will be something of a challenge.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 44
15th February 1941

The air assistant continues to do its thing, so I turn it off again and place all units to rest.

The 7th Armoured and 2nd Armoured take Mechili and Agedabia respectively, but then the turn ends and its fair to say that the British grasp on the former is er... tenuous...

I keep reading with interest your AAR !

But I would say that this issue with the Air assistant turning itself ON when we put it OFF seems like a bug, no ?

What do the devs think ?

Regards

ORIGINAL: Franciscus

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 44
15th February 1941

The air assistant continues to do its thing, so I turn it off again and place all units to rest.

The 7th Armoured and 2nd Armoured take Mechili and Agedabia respectively, but then the turn ends and its fair to say that the British grasp on the former is er... tenuous...

I keep reading with interest your AAR !

But I would say that this issue with the Air assistant turning itself ON when we put it OFF seems like a bug, no ?

What do the devs think ?

Regards

warspite1

I will mention it as it seems to be continuing - which is pretty boring.