Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Xargun
But don't be mad at Matrix (or the CD downloading service) as if they didn't charge the tax you can be sure some euro government would come after them legally... Same as the US government would if they didn't charge some sales tax for certain states...

All in all, just a big miscommunications that I think Matrix is working to correct...

Sorry, but I completely disagree.

This misunderstanding is entirely down to Matrix or rather their agents DR and so they are absolutely the right people to complain to. The law regarding VAT in the EU and the exchange rate system are both long standing and accepted factors in international sales.

The fact is that Matrix/DR screwed it up and as a result a lot of EU customers are getting charged unexpected and in some cases incorrectly calculated charges.

ORIGINAL: onnel

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Things are the way they are, and Matrix is correct (even in having a separate EU price, that is certainly their perrogative).

Definitely their perogative, but they had better be prepared to defend that decision if they don't want some very pissed off customers (or would have been customers). Charging a higher price for a digital download from one location and not another (and I'm not talking about the sales/VAT/luxury tax issue) is not too kosher in many of our books.

Secondly, Matrix is not exactly correct. Displaying a price in the UK or Germany (cannot speak about the rest of the EU) and then adding in tax after the customer has confirmed is ILLEGAL. What you confirm is what you are charged. Anything else is against the law.

I can remember when prices for computer hardware purchased in the US were in $'s and the same hardware in the UK was the same price in £'s. Thus a sound system costing $149 in the US cost £149 in the UK. This was before internet shopping and I regularly used to ring US companies on their toll free numbers to order computer hardware at the $ price getting it virtually half-price as a result.

However, that sort of scam doesn't work now that the internet is available. After all if DR are going to start hiking up the price of WiTP in its UK store why would customers not just log onto the US store and order it from there at the cheaper US price.

As for the VAT. If DR is indeed a UK company then it is in breach of the UK law by not displaying the either the VAT inclusive price of the product or clearly stating that the price quote is Ex-VAT. As such people purchasing this product have a vaild case for claiming a refund or insisting that the product is sold to them at the advertised price.

This is one very important reason for always buying from the internet using a credit card, only last year I was forced to notify my card company that I was withdrawing my authority on a purchase from the US because the supplier had taken my money before dispatching the goods. This is another instance where as a customer I would contact my credit card company and inform them that the amount debited exceeds the amount I was informed I would be charged. The credit card company will then hamdle all the legal issues and recover the money on your behalf.

PS:

I had to laugh when I had a look for Digital River on the internet

http://www.digitalriver.com/corporate/index.shtml

Note:
Digital River is the world's foremost e-commerce expert, offering companies the technologies and services proven to grow online sales and reduce costs - all in an outsourcing solution.

Lol: Yeah right!

They really did Matrix proud.

Should read Digital River is the world's dumbest e-commerce outfit, offering cheap untested technology guarantee'd to piss-off your customers, lose you business and artificially inflate the price of your products to European buyers.

Ha ha ha !
Der war gut....

1.) Beleidigst Du lediglich Dich selbst oder Deine Intelligenz,
Du regst Dich darüber auf, ein Programm gekauft zu haben und es war zu teuer `? Oh jeh... hat Mami geschimpft ? Hör mal, wenn es Dir zu teuer war, dann hättest Du VORHER nachdenken müssen
2.) Um welchen Betrag war es Dir denn zu teuer ? Oder haste es installiert, erkannt daß Du dem Spiel nicht gewachsen bist und machst jetzt dicke Backen ?
3.) Als ich das Programm bestellt habe, WUSSTE ich daß VAT dazukommt. Ebenfalls war mir bekannt, daß 64,99 € mehr sind als 64,99 $
4.) Nirgendwo steht geschrieben, daß Matrix nicht unterschiedliche Preise verlangen kann ? "Wir" Europäer sind halt etwas wohlhabender und deshalb werden wir mehr zahlen müssen. Du hättest ja VORHER nachdenken können.

Fazit:
Die Pisa-Studie hat Recht, D ist auf dem absteigenden Ast und Du bist das beste Beispiel.

PS: Vielen Dank für die Rücksicht auf die englischsprachigen Leser des englischsprachigen Forums....
PPS: Ich find es klasse daß Du so viel gezahlt hast und NOCH besser, daß Du Dich aufregst...

und tschüss [8|]

Everyone,

from the looks of it if you buy from the US site of Digital River and give a non-EU country as your country, you don't pay any VAT. [:'(]

well, yes.
But if someone is as stupid to do so (me too, but i do NOT blame Matrix for it, my fault, i could have done other, but i wanted the CD on Demand, so i accepted my fate (like a man not like a chicken) he could be upset, but his kind of behaviour isn´t good for ALL fans of matrix games. He could bring people in a situation that they distrust Matrix and so, they do not buy games from them and so we got no new games in a few years (untill then i play witp), and this is nothing i like.

I agree that the behaviour to take more money from the europeans is quite "offending", but such is the worlds business. If i dislike this, i do not pay for it OR i seek a method to avoid it. But this could be done by pm, not in public in an important phase of selling a game that costed a lot time, sweat and money...

just my 2 €s... err, in the moment around 2,50 $

but yes, i agree that dr should make it more transparent (or if you want to buy the game, you get an email with such informations by matrix, etc...)
we will see...

Shouldn't this thread be moved to the General Discussion Forum.

It doesn't really have anything to do with WiTP except that it happened to be the product purchased by MG3.

a ha ha !
Der war gut....

1.) Beleidigst Du lediglich Dich selbst oder Deine Intelligenz,
Du regst Dich darüber auf, ein Programm gekauft zu haben und es war zu teuer `? Oh jeh... hat Mami geschimpft ? Hör mal, wenn es Dir zu teuer war, dann hättest Du VORHER nachdenken müssen
2.) Um welchen Betrag war es Dir denn zu teuer ? Oder haste es installiert, erkannt daß Du dem Spiel nicht gewachsen bist und machst jetzt dicke Backen ?
3.) Als ich das Programm bestellt habe, WUSSTE ich daß VAT dazukommt. Ebenfalls war mir bekannt, daß 64,99 € mehr sind als 64,99 $
4.) Nirgendwo steht geschrieben, daß Matrix nicht unterschiedliche Preise verlangen kann ? "Wir" Europäer sind halt etwas wohlhabender und deshalb werden wir mehr zahlen müssen. Du hättest ja VORHER nachdenken können.

Fazit:
Die Pisa-Studie hat Recht, D ist auf dem absteigenden Ast und Du bist das beste Beispiel.

PS: Vielen Dank für die Rücksicht auf die englischsprachigen Leser des englischsprachigen Forums....
PPS: Ich find es klasse daß Du so viel gezahlt hast und NOCH besser, daß Du Dich aufregst...

und tschüss

Number of insults still rising- he?

First you nitwit, I dont really believe you know me or the kind of games I played the last 20 years. I am a long time wargamer and I used to be a big Gary Grigsby fan since the old C64 days. First you tell me it is a bad behaviour to write in German on this board (after you have insulted me off course) and then you are writing the very same post in German(!). Then you tell me how stupid I am that I take the TOTAL price for true, that Matrix has nothing to do with it even its their side, I am too stupid to understand this game anyway and people like me are the reason why the Germans finished to bad in the PISA studies.

Very nice asslicking, I will tell you something:

1. I have bought and played plenty Matrix games (even ordered UV from Matrix, when there was a discussion in this forum about the high shipping costs) and understood every single of them without problems.

2. I had a bad day when I ordered this game- and I already confessed in my post that it is partly my fault, since I didnt read every single letter before I did hit submit. All I did to look at the total price and then entered my data. Maybe a bit naive, but I just wanted this game and had not very much time because I (as the total stupid a**hole you describe me) run my own business (software development) and did not think Matrix would rely on such things to earn some extra $$$.

3. meine "Mutti" ist schon vor Jahren vor meinen Augen im zarten Alter von 36 gestorben- um nicht zu sagen "übelst verreckt". Daher kann sie schlecht mit mir "schimpfen"

4. "think before" is right, but its is close to a scam to conseal the real price until you have no other choice but to pay. Maybe for a such smart, wealthy and bright Matrix-fan as you are its no problem to pay for the same thing 30$ more- but I still think this fish stinks big time

5. there are people on this board who think this businesspractic is very strange, some even think it is illegal. So how do you think you get the right to say all these people are plain stupid Mr. Know-it-all?

6. I could go on to defend myself that I am not stupid, but who cares? There are some big Matrixfans who seem to take this critic about the billingsystem very personal and have the big urge, to defend Matrix by insulting the critc. Keep on going- after the joke with my mother I am really angry and believe me- I know how to hurt people and companies I hate.

I think the Digital River order process is buggy as well:

When I placed my order, a window popped up asking for my County.

This was after I had gone through the cart and DESELECTED CD on demand (I don't need it).

Well, after I selected the county, it then returned the statement, processed with CD on Demand included.

That was 10 bucks I was not looking to spend, but I am hoping my CD on demand looks professional.

Gentlemen,

Reporting problems or giving suggestions on the working of the online store is perfectly acceptable. Casting aspersions back and forth is not and I'll lock this thread if that continues.

I repeat, we have no need for defenders or attackers, we're here to help all our customers and we're doing the best we can. Obviously, we'd be happier if there had been no confusion such as occurred, but we are now working to fix it and will let you all know the new plans and policies as soon as we have a final set of decisions.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: Pascal
from the looks of it if you buy from the US site of Digital River and give a non-EU country as your country, you don't pay any VAT.

And that should be this thread's helpfull bottom line.

MG3, why don´t you answer my Pm to you?

I am still interested in getting my hands on WITP, so come on, lets trade your game!


Frank

ORIGINAL: Didz

ORIGINAL: Xargun
But don't be mad at Matrix (or the CD downloading service) as if they didn't charge the tax you can be sure some euro government would come after them legally... Same as the US government would if they didn't charge some sales tax for certain states...

All in all, just a big miscommunications that I think Matrix is working to correct...

Sorry, but I completely disagree.

This misunderstanding is entirely down to Matrix or rather their agents DR and so they are absolutely the right people to complain to. The law regarding VAT in the EU and the exchange rate system are both long standing and accepted factors in international sales.

The fact is that Matrix/DR screwed it up and as a result a lot of EU customers are getting charged unexpected and in some cases incorrectly calculated charges.

AGain and again and AGAIN, EU customers are NOT getting charged ANYTHING extra other than the VAT. The issues is the VAT is not being properly shown on the invoice BEFORE customer acceptance of the charges. In MG3's case he was charged EXACTLY the RIGHT price. We say with currency exchange rates applied his purchase came to $79.95 which is EXACTLY what I paid in the US for the DD and follow on CD....which is EXACTLY what he orders. They then added on the VAT which brought the final total to about $93.00.

Again, the ONLY issue is that the $93.00 is not what showed up when he was asked to click the accept button! But the $93.00 is the RIGHT PRICE for a customer in his location!

So yes, in the EU, the game with the CD is going to run roughly $93.00, and that is the RIGHT price. Nothing extra there at all. And it appears you can sneek around the VAT thing if you want to, but ordering from the US store.....IF you can get an EU bank issued credit card to pass....

Gentlemen,

Please just table this discussion until we can finish our discussions with DR and make an announcement, thanks. Zoom, it appears the problem isn't as simple as that, we're working on a resolution.

Regards,

- Erik

Zoomie, I will it make easy for you:

One euro is 1.2 US dollars. So 70 euros are 70 x 1.2= 84$.

So the average European has to pay 84$ for a product an American can buy for 80. So the European is charged more for exactly the same product.

Did you get it?

All calculations are without VAT or customs.

Erik......lock it down! LOL

I think this horse has died, been chopped up, turned into catfood, eaten by the cat, sh1t out by the cat, fertilized the grass, been eaten by the next horse, the horse has died, and is on it's way to the catfood factory again.

-F-

I'm going to move this to General, if this needs to continue it can run on there. As long as the personal attacks don't continue, I won't lock it up.

Regards,

- Erik

I think this horse has died, been chopped up, turned into catfood, eaten by the cat, sh1t out by the cat, fertilized the grass, been eaten by the next horse, the horse has died, and is on it's way to the catfood factory again.

Now that is exactly how production works! Why couldn't we get you to write that part of the manual.

Crystal Clear! [:D]

ORIGINAL: Adnan Meshuggi

Ha ha ha !
Der war gut....

1.) Beleidigst Du lediglich Dich selbst oder Deine Intelligenz,
Du regst Dich darüber auf, ein Programm gekauft zu haben und es war zu teuer `? Oh jeh... hat Mami geschimpft ? Hör mal, wenn es Dir zu teuer war, dann hättest Du VORHER nachdenken müssen
2.) Um welchen Betrag war es Dir denn zu teuer ? Oder haste es installiert, erkannt daß Du dem Spiel nicht gewachsen bist und machst jetzt dicke Backen ?
3.) Als ich das Programm bestellt habe, WUSSTE ich daß VAT dazukommt. Ebenfalls war mir bekannt, daß 64,99 € mehr sind als 64,99 $
4.) Nirgendwo steht geschrieben, daß Matrix nicht unterschiedliche Preise verlangen kann ? "Wir" Europäer sind halt etwas wohlhabender und deshalb werden wir mehr zahlen müssen. Du hättest ja VORHER nachdenken können.

Fazit:
Die Pisa-Studie hat Recht, D ist auf dem absteigenden Ast und Du bist das beste Beispiel.

PS: Vielen Dank für die Rücksicht auf die englischsprachigen Leser des englischsprachigen Forums....
PPS: Ich find es klasse daß Du so viel gezahlt hast und NOCH besser, daß Du Dich aufregst...

und tschüss [8|]

Stop your continous personal insults. You´re warned.

ORIGINAL: Frank

Zoomie, I will it make easy for you:

One euro is 1.2 US dollars. So 70 euros are 70 x 1.2= 84$.

So the average European has to pay 84$ for a product an American can buy for 80. So the European is charged more for exactly the same product.

Did you get it?

All calculations are without VAT or customs.

Were do or did we state that we do one to one currency conversions based on the US price tag?

In fact it is very common to base prices on the general prices in a certain country.

If you want examples for that I can give you plenty.