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RE: War in China
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:10 pm
by oscar72se
Nicely done Iomyrin. I have enjoyed your reports a great deal, thank you. I am however a little bit curious about what would have happened if Japan decided to utilize her aircraft for strategic bombardment. The way I see it, Japan could send in 4 factors to Chengtu, unintercepted... That would mean +1 on the chart. On a 5 would it would be bye, bye oil (60% chance/risk depending on point of view).
Regards,
Oscar
RE: War in China
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:34 pm
by micheljq
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
Nicely done Iomyrin. I have enjoyed your reports a great deal, thank you. I am however a little bit curious about what would have happened if Japan decided to utilize her aircraft for strategic bombardment. The way I see it, Japan could send in 4 factors to Chengtu, unintercepted... That would mean +1 on the chart. On a 5 would it would be bye, bye oil (60% chance/risk depending on point of view).
Regards,
Oscar
Nice idea.
Japan could also rely on a strategy of heavy bombardement on China, problem it that this can consume a lot of oil, which Japan does not have in excess.
RE: War in China
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:04 pm
by oscar72se
Well, much is gained for the japanese player if that oil "dissappears". It is not fun playing China without oil and getting your only HQ flipped...
[;)]
Regards,
Oscar
RE: War in China
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:21 pm
by sajbalk
Thanks for all your hard work. Please do another, if possible.
As to strat bombing ... a good idea. However China should put its oil in one of the far NW cities. Cheng-Tu is too close.
RE: War in China
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:35 pm
by Orm
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
Well, much is gained for the japanese player if that oil "dissappears". It is not fun playing China without oil and getting your only HQ flipped...
[;)]
Regards,
Oscar
Allies should strive to get at least one more oil into China before the Burma road is closed by Japanese control.
RE: War in China
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:45 pm
by peskpesk
ORIGINAL: Froonp
ORIGINAL: lomyrin
This then will conclude this example of the war in China.
Will there be another ?
Yes please! [&o] And maybe this times the soviets could rattle the sabres loudly at the Manchuria border and threaten to attack! And please keep at exact build/losses record count.
RE: War in China
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:45 pm
by brian brian
mucho thanks lomyrin!
RE: War in China
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:52 pm
by paulderynck
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
Well, much is gained for the japanese player if that oil "dissappears". It is not fun playing China without oil and getting your only HQ flipped...
[;)]
Regards,
Oscar
This is why you usually find the Oil located in Kashgar.
RE: War in China
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:09 pm
by BallyJ
Thanks for this. I have enjoyed your reports. Come on release date!!! The new China looks great.
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:18 am
by Joseignacio
Thanks, I was also following and enjoying it.
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:49 am
by oscar72se
ORIGINAL: paulderynck
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
Well, much is gained for the japanese player if that oil "dissappears". It is not fun playing China without oil and getting your only HQ flipped...
[;)]
Regards,
Oscar
This is why you usually find the Oil located in Kashgar.
True, but you can't protect yourself from everything. IIRC there are japanese planes with 22 range and a strat-factor. [:)]
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:46 am
by Neilster
Any chance of a Guadacanal scenario? It would give people a feel for naval combat in MWiF. For those that don't know, this can be quite unpredictable.
Cheers, Neilster
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:49 am
by micheljq
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
Well, much is gained for the japanese player if that oil "dissappears". It is not fun playing China without oil and getting your only HQ flipped...
[;)]
Regards,
Oscar
I speak about a long and heavy strategic bombardment of China, lower it's production and even destroy some blue factories. The chinese oil coup is easy to counter, just put the chinese oil far far away in the east, like in Urumchi. To reorganise, you just need a basic supply path of any lenght. [:)]
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:52 am
by micheljq
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
True, but you can't protect yourself from everything. IIRC there are japanese planes with 22 range and a strat-factor. [:)]
I don't think Japan has this sort of plane early on. But again, China begins with a FTR in the setup, just put the FTR in the same city as oil, far away in the west, instead of having that FTR destroyed by the usually better japanese fighters.
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:21 pm
by Mike Parker
ORIGINAL: micheljq
ORIGINAL: oscar72se
True, but you can't protect yourself from everything. IIRC there are japanese planes with 22 range and a strat-factor. [:)]
I don't think Japan has this sort of plane early on. But again, China begins with a FTR in the setup, just put the FTR in the same city as oil, far away in the west, instead of having that FTR destroyed by the usually better japanese fighters.
They start 1939 with a 19 Range plane with a strat factors the H6K Mavis. A pretty valuable aircraft for them since its an ATR. In 41 they get a 22 Range G4M1 Betty, but that is a little late in the war.
I agree with putting the fighter with the oil, its not like you get much use of it elsewhere, the Japanese can usually manage to have a 4 factor Ftr (or CVP even) against your 3.
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:36 pm
by Froonp
ORIGINAL: Mike Parker
They start 1939 with a 19 Range plane with a strat factors the H6K Mavis. A pretty valuable aircraft for them since its an ATR. In 41 they get a 22 Range G4M1 Betty, but that is a little late in the war.
I agree with putting the fighter with the oil, its not like you get much use of it elsewhere, the Japanese can usually manage to have a 4 factor Ftr (or CVP even) against your 3.
Japan does not start the Global War 1939-1945 scenario with the 19 ranged Mavis.
They have 3 FTR2 from which 2 must be put on the map.
They have 3 LND2 from which 2 must be put on the map.
They have 2 NAV2 from which 1 must be put on the map.
They have 1 NAV3 from which 1 must be put on the map.
The H6K Mavis is an ATR4 that enters the force pool in 1939, but it is not in game at start. It must be built for 4 of the 10 or so initial Japanese BP,and will at best be in game in M/J 40 after 4 turns of building.
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:33 pm
by Mike Parker
ORIGINAL: Froonp
ORIGINAL: Mike Parker
They start 1939 with a 19 Range plane with a strat factors the H6K Mavis. A pretty valuable aircraft for them since its an ATR. In 41 they get a 22 Range G4M1 Betty, but that is a little late in the war.
I agree with putting the fighter with the oil, its not like you get much use of it elsewhere, the Japanese can usually manage to have a 4 factor Ftr (or CVP even) against your 3.
Japan does not start the Global War 1939-1945 scenario with the 19 ranged Mavis.
They have 3 FTR2 from which 2 must be put on the map.
They have 3 LND2 from which 2 must be put on the map.
They have 2 NAV2 from which 1 must be put on the map.
They have 1 NAV3 from which 1 must be put on the map.
The H6K Mavis is an ATR4 that enters the force pool in 1939, but it is not in game at start. It must be built for 4 of the 10 or so initial Japanese BP,and will at best be in game in M/J 40 after 4 turns of building.
I should have said "They start the 1939 scenario with only one long range bomber in their force pool the H6K Mavis which is an ATR.
I meant it was available in '39, it could be built (and often will be for its ATR as well as bombing) and it would then be capable of potentially being used against the chinese stored oil as was suggested.
I was trying to refute the idea that a 22 range bomber was available to get to the oil early, and well the only possibility is the Mavis early on, the Japanese don' get a 22 range bomber till '41, then they have to build it, then deploy it in china, then pretty quickly they will need to be attacking the CW so its pretty unlikely the G4M1 Betty will really get a shot at any stored oil.
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:38 pm
by morgil
I dont recall the cost of these planes, but i belive JPN start out with a 14 range Nell, 1 or 2 strat.
If you dont need this plane for partisan checkerage and can afford the oil, it can be quite helpfull to strat the chinese.
If you get the 2strat one, its 40% chance of a BP every turn, assuming you dont get intercepted, and that is about a MIL/GAR and an INF removed from the last picture in the scenario above...
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:10 pm
by Mike Parker
Morgil,
You are right the JPN do have a 14 range NAV with 1 or 2 (depending on draw) Strat factors. Not sure if it has the legs to reach out to get the on-map oil the chinese keep socked away though.
RE: War in China
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:03 pm
by paulderynck
ORIGINAL: Mike Parker
ORIGINAL: Froonp
ORIGINAL: Mike Parker
They start 1939 with a 19 Range plane with a strat factors the H6K Mavis. A pretty valuable aircraft for them since its an ATR. In 41 they get a 22 Range G4M1 Betty, but that is a little late in the war.
I agree with putting the fighter with the oil, its not like you get much use of it elsewhere, the Japanese can usually manage to have a 4 factor Ftr (or CVP even) against your 3.
Japan does not start the Global War 1939-1945 scenario with the 19 ranged Mavis.
They have 3 FTR2 from which 2 must be put on the map.
They have 3 LND2 from which 2 must be put on the map.
They have 2 NAV2 from which 1 must be put on the map.
They have 1 NAV3 from which 1 must be put on the map.
The H6K Mavis is an ATR4 that enters the force pool in 1939, but it is not in game at start. It must be built for 4 of the 10 or so initial Japanese BP,and will at best be in game in M/J 40 after 4 turns of building.
I should have said "They start the 1939 scenario with only one long range bomber in their force pool the H6K Mavis which is an ATR.
I meant it was available in '39, it could be built (and often will be for its ATR as well as bombing) and it would then be capable of potentially being used against the chinese stored oil as was suggested.
I was trying to refute the idea that a 22 range bomber was available to get to the oil early, and well the only possibility is the Mavis early on, the Japanese don' get a 22 range bomber till '41, then they have to build it, then deploy it in china, then pretty quickly they will need to be attacking the CW so its pretty unlikely the G4M1 Betty will really get a shot at any stored oil.
In the boardgame the Mavis would still have to be based in the desert 2 hexes N.E. of Lan Chow to be in range of Kashgar. Having a plane based there in supply is not a simple matter for the Japanese.