Matrix Games Forums

March 11th 1942.


Oh, boy – what a day! Good or bad….you shall soon know.

CV Zuikaku and DD Natugumo (?) is found by a Dutch 5-boat MTB squadron just outside Soerebaja, on the exact spot it was supposed to be. Low visibility (1.000 yards)
in thunderstorms. MTB’s TM-7 and TM-8 each engage the enemy ships but both parties break off. A good opportunity lost.

Better luck east of Kendari, DD Mahan surprises a PB and a Maru. Both are hit by gunfire but nothing definite. 3 of our DD’s engage 4 Marus near Menado but are
withdrawing. Are our sailors losing their guts? There seems to be a marked decrease in our naval forces’ aggressiveness.

SS Perch torpedoes AK Nisso Maru south of Menado. Another hit on Nitia Maru. The submarine barrier seems to be working.

A skirmish outside Kendari. 3 DMS’s damage PB Kainu Maru heavily.

Nisso Maru is hit a second time by SS Perch. SS Spearfish hits AP Montevideo Maru near Ternate. Nothing wrong with the aggressiveness here! Those Marus are
swimming in a minefield of submarines!

The enemy is hitting back terribly! 9 Bettys torpedo CL Java near Loewok. 5 out of 9 Bettys damaged in the process.

The Aussies are doing well over Lae. Another Oscar downed by the PM Kittyhawks. No own losses.

Dutch DD Piet Hein is the ballerina of Java Sea. Another 6-ship Betty attack only bounces off her. 1 Betty destroyed, 1 damaged. Piet Hein is undamaged.

That damned enemy CV TF has withdrawn and strikes back with 24 Kates, 19 Vals and 7 Zeros. CL Concord is on fire, CL Tromp is down. Good try to catch it, anyway.
The Japanese obviously smelled a rat. I had CV Saratoga positioned between Denpasar and Koepang and staged her whole dive bomber complement, Devastators included,
through Denpasar. If the enemy had stayed where the Dutch MTB’s found him in the morning, it could have been Bingo! Now it was a blow in the air.

Finally, CL Concord sank outside Soerebaja.

An AK Maru was sunk outside Kendari by DMS’s Zane, Trevor and Perry. These old converted DD’s still know how to use their guns and have been quite useful in the
missions assigned them. The three musketeers went on and bombarded the Japanese force in Kendari.

So, as a whole, 3 nice light cruisers lost for 4 lousy Marus. This is the third time the enemy CV’s created havoc. My Saratoga dive bombers never made contact,
but they all made it back to Denpasar. Good thing I kept Saratoga out of it.

Now I need to get the planes back onboard and get the surviving fighting ships back to the Banda Sea. I must conserve my ships to keep the enemy from consolidating
his struggling bases around the Moluccan Sea. There are some reserves in Darwin and other escorts approaching the Torres Strait from south.

Fred

I was about to hang this tail (see below) on the last report but when going through the days’ result I found that Saratoga’s planes, except for a few, actually had
returned directly to the carrier. This, then, brings up the question: As only a couple of sighting reports were made of the enemy carrier force (by 40-plus planes),
did they at all have the range to reach the enemy carriers? I mean, did they ever intend to return to their departure point, Denpasar, but were forced to
calculate a flight all the way back to their carrier – instead of to Denpasar? If so, that is equally bad as the land-based planes cannot return to a different
airfield than the one they depart from as I then lost much of the advantage by staging them through Denpasar.

IOW, are there different routing systems for land and carrier-based planes?

“Comment to above: I’ll go so far as to say that the above shows a flaw in the game. It concerns flight planning. While ships can be set to return to a different
location than the one they depart from, planes cannot. Surely, this shouldn’t be more difficult to arrange for planes than with ships? It would add a lot to
realism as this was a procedure used in RL. As an example, B-17’s on a bombing mission staging through an airfield but returning from their target to the original
departure point.

Above should also be a valid example: Saratoga’s dive bombers, staging through Denpasar to increase their range, had to return to Denpasar. Conditions permitting,
they should have been able to return directly to Saratoga. In the game they can’t.
Just my opinion.

Fred"

Just because there is a sighting report doesn't mean the bombers can find the target. There are many cases where a strike had to hunt around for the enemy and many cases where they didn't find the enemy and returned without attacking the enemy.

There were situations where B-17s staged through forward bases like Port Morseby to bomb targets that would otherwise be out of their range, but it was arranged ahead of time. I don't know of any instance where it was done on short notice.

I also don't know of any instance where USN aircraft staged through a forward base to bomb a more distant target, especially a shipping strike. In the early days of the war there would not have been the coordination between the navy and land forces necessary for such an operation. There was one case where VF-17, which was land based was transferred to the Bunker Hill from a land base for one operation and that was only for a few hours. The fighter group was already known to the crew of the carrier because they had trained on the carrier and the whole thing was meticulously planned weeks in advance.

Carrier planes did divert to land bases like Henderson during the Guadalcanal campaign, but they didn't stage through Guadalcanal. They usually ended up there due to a low fuel emergency situation, or damage to a carrier.

Bill

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Just because there is a sighting report doesn't mean the bombers can find the target. There are many cases where a strike had to hunt around for the enemy and many cases where they didn't find the enemy and returned without attacking the enemy.

There were situations where B-17s staged through forward bases like Port Morseby to bomb targets that would otherwise be out of their range, but it was arranged ahead of time. I don't know of any instance where it was done on short notice.

I also don't know of any instance where USN aircraft staged through a forward base to bomb a more distant target, especially a shipping strike. In the early days of the war there would not have been the coordination between the navy and land forces necessary for such an operation. There was one case where VF-17, which was land based was transferred to the Bunker Hill from a land base for one operation and that was only for a few hours. The fighter group was already known to the crew of the carrier because they had trained on the carrier and the whole thing was meticulously planned weeks in advance.

Carrier planes did divert to land bases like Henderson during the Guadalcanal campaign, but they didn't stage through Guadalcanal. They usually ended up there due to a low fuel emergency situation, or damage to a carrier.

Bill

All good information, Bill. Thank you!

Seems this is actually what happened. A few SBD's and Devastators diverted to Denpasar but most returned to the carrier.

Fred

I am aproaching the time when I shall close this campaign down and start anew, hopefully correcting the many mistakes, but mainly my beginners ignorance, of this
my first scenario in WITP. My plan is to play one more against the AI, then go on to learn the Editor and after that a final campaign, with the best possible
original (RL) start to help develop my book project.

As you may have grabbed, up till now I have used the download version of the latest editon WITP-AE, with no patches. I am now ready to install the game, and the
Editor, anew from the purchased CD.

What I would appreciate is advice on the new installation, patches, etc. Also, which scenario has the most correct (RL) start. Meaning, with correct losses on the
first day and a script that as much as possible follows the RL. For a period, at least.

Thank you, all.

Fred

There are at-start scenarios that begin on 08 Dec 41, that begin w/ the historic damage at Pearl, & presumably also at other Allied bases. There's also a Preference for '07 Dec surprise'.

The 'script' you play against the AI is determined randomly when you begin the game. I think there are 12 different ones, while each is prob'ly based on actual IJ plans, I doubt you'll get an answer about which one is 'most correct'. Presumably, each one has different agressive intent, & has agressive plans that extend beyond 1942.

ORIGINAL: jmalter

There are at-start scenarios that begin on 08 Dec 41, that begin w/ the historic damage at Pearl, & presumably also at other Allied bases. There's also a Preference for '07 Dec surprise'.

The 'script' you play against the AI is determined randomly when you begin the game. I think there are 12 different ones, while each is prob'ly based on actual IJ plans, I doubt you'll get an answer about which one is 'most correct'. Presumably, each one has different agressive intent, & has agressive plans that extend beyond 1942.

Exactly what I have heard. And, there is no way to pick which script will play out when you start the game.

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

ORIGINAL: jmalter

There are at-start scenarios that begin on 08 Dec 41, that begin w/ the historic damage at Pearl, & presumably also at other Allied bases. There's also a Preference for '07 Dec surprise'.

The 'script' you play against the AI is determined randomly when you begin the game. I think there are 12 different ones, while each is prob'ly based on actual IJ plans, I doubt you'll get an answer about which one is 'most correct'. Presumably, each one has different agressive intent, & has agressive plans that extend beyond 1942.

Exactly what I have heard. And, there is no way to pick which script will play out when you start the game.

Right. In some scripts the Japanese plans are really ambitious and they rapidly over-extend, but in other scripts they are more measured and restrained in their perimeter conquests.
The setting you use for the Japanese AI is important - setting the AI difficulty to "Historic" is supposed to give the RL level of aggressiveness, but because of the inherent gaps in the pre-imagined script, many Allied players have reported that the Hard and Extra Hard level are required to get a satisfactory game.

That said, in your intended short game (a year or so game time) the Historic level may prove adequate to test your plans.

Thank you, all! Two questions:

What patches do you guys feel are absolutey necessary after I have installed the game anew?

Is it possible to "edit" the opposition AI Before or after the game has been started?

Fred

Its not possible to edit the AI script you can step in or ask someone else to do so and have them make manual adjustments to correct some of the major issues

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Its not possible to edit the AI script you can step in or ask someone else to do so and have them make manual adjustments to correct some of the major issues

You mean like playing both sides?

Fred

Yes you can either step in yourself for a couple of turns to correct some of the Ai issues or ask someone else to take a peek and sort them out.

Generally the AI has a few things go wrong that someone taking a peek for a turn or 2 in every game year can resolve.

I do it for a lot of v AI players they send me a turn every game year and I take a look and fix a few things I sometimes need to run a turn but often not.

It helps me out with AI design so I am always happy to do it.

Typically its things like the odd depleted Sqn in the wrong place.
Stockpiled air in Tokyo
LCU's in Tokyo that have been rebuilt
Maybe ships stashed in a port too frar forward.

Nothing that will break the game if left unfixed but a bit of housekeeping can help the AI a lot and increase the challenge
Andy

Andy knows what he's talking about with the AI, he wrote all the scripts. With the AI, you can limit it to one script if you only have 1 AI file in the Scen directory for your scenario. Unless you write it yourself you don't know what that script's strategy will be though.

As for patches, you should update to the latest patch:
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/351/downloads/

The March 2015 patch updates everything to the latest version. You will get some extra features, hundreds of bug fixes, and a more stable game engine.

Bill

Thank you, guys - appreciate it!

Fred

March 12th 1942.

The main mission now, after the latest naval losses, is to reorganize the local naval resources, maintain the air forces, and to pour in more land forces to the
budding allied resistance nests. The heavier naval units shall be withdrawn and new, lighter ones, inserted. The pressure on the enemy bases in the Moluccan Sea
must be kept up. If he is able to develop airfields on those locations things shall get much more complicated. Fortunately, most of the existing airfields are
placed quite close to the sea and therefore vulnerable to nightly naval bombardments.

The last 24 hours have seen some quite confusing naval skirmishes. DD’s Case and Rathburne bump into 2 enemy PB’s while patrolling outside Ternate. No decisive
action.

Dutch DD Piet Hein is at it again. She surprised CA Chokai and DD Shimonome in bad weather conditions (thunderstorms, 1.000 yards visibility) near Soerebaja.
Shimonome was sunk. Chokai was also hit by gunfire. Piet Hein evades.

CA Chokai goes in pursuit and bumps into CL Trenton and DD’s Anderson and Hammann in the bad weather. Chokai is hit twice. In a third encounter Trenton is hit
twice and set on fire. Chokai receives 7 hits.

Piet Hein withdraws from an encounter with an AK and a PB.

Ternate is bombarded. 1 Zero destroyed on ground, many hits on the airfield.

A Royal Navy TF, CV Indomitable, CL Colombo and DD Nestor and Nizam discovers enemy transports SW Sunda Strait. The RN TF withdraws.

AS CL Trenton and her cohorts withdraw DD Piet Hein makes more attempts at Chokai. Finds it and achieves 5 hits on two occasions in the bad weather. DMS’s Long and
Chandler barely manage to avoid CA Chokai.

Chokai finally gets her revenge, Piet Hein is hit thrice – heavy damage, on fire. After that, another encounter with DMS’s Long and Chandler. Chokai is hit once.

In the final encounter of the night CL Trenton and her 2 DDs once again find CA Chokai. She is hit thrice, Trenton once. They separate for the last time.

It was only to be expected. The RN TF SW Banda Strait was obviously reported by the enemy transport TF that got away. The RN TF was originally planned to meet up
with the large troop convoy with the rest of the Australian I Corps onboard, travelling from Aden to Australia. They never met up, instead the CV force wandered
towards the west coast of Java where it was caught by Japanese carrier planes from the TF in Java Sea.

CV Indomitable receives 10 bomb hits and 1 by torpedo. CL Colombo is sunk.

Later in the day CA Chokai is reported sighted by Saratoga SDB’s flying out of Denpasar. One bomb hit is claimed.

A second attack on CV Indomitable south of Sunda Strait.

The enemy makes another landing attempt at Sabang on the northern tip of Sumatra. Now supported by 3 DD’s. The city is occupied during the day. The defenders
withdraw inland.

DD Piet Hein is still afloat in the evening but has extensive flooding, the fires have been extinguished. It’s got a long way home. CL Trenton is still in pretty
good shape as are her companions, DD’s Anderson and Hammann.

Presently CA Chokai is reported on a NW course, in her path is the Trenton TF. A little north of that the damaged Piet Hein. Close to Soerebaja the two DMS’s. Is
it possible to catch her? It wouldn’t be fair to pit the 2 DMS’s against a heavy cruiser even if she may be quite damaged. The DMS’s have had their torpedo tubes
removed. Only one other own warship is within sprinting distance, DD Dunlap. DD McCall is a little closer but is out of ammo.

Saratoga is south of Bima and could eventually be moved up a little to get her planes within range. I could detach her cruiser escort and the 2 DD’s. We shall see
how it develops.

The enemy transport convoy that fared so badly by our submarines yesterday escaped towards NE, out of the trap but two other supply convoys have been reported near
Kendari. How do they do it? They are within range of several of our naval vessels.

While I would like to conserve my naval forces I cannot let the opportunity to destroy the Japanese heavy cruiser get away. Might induce some respect in them.

Fred

I’m on Mar 20th 1942 now and I have several AAR's between the 12th and that one but I won’t use any more of my (or yours) time on those but eventually rather start
afresh on a new one. Now on to the new installation. Hope to be back shortly.

Fred

The installation and first update worked well. I’m getting better use of the various menus/facilities now. Presently, I‘m checking the convoys underway, and about
to start out westwards on Dec. 7/8th, while waiting for Washington’s decisions what to do with them.

Until I have familiarized myself with the Editor I shall just pick such units which are similar to those originally planned to go with those convoys. There were
quite a few of them. I’m not intending to influence much on what is going on in The Philippines other than what is eventually justified to change based on what
Washington decides in the coming days. Same with China, Soviet and Burma.

Fred

OK, here goes the second part of my “Saving MacArthur” experiment. The first was to learn the basics of WITP and to try to find out whether it can be used as a
tool to keep track of a necessarily different scenario based on an alternative attitude of the US leadership and a decision to go for solutions mainly
(egoistically) covering US (Philippine) needs.

As a databank and filing cabinet the game as such as proved even better than I had hoped for. That the AI was more aggressive, and reacted faster and more
effectively than RL (my opinion), only contributes to the realism of the experiment.

The first try was marred by some serious mistakes by me in the (technical) use of the game. This influenced on an otherwise tight schedule. Considering that,
I’m quite pleased with how it developed. The main (lack of) result caused by this was an “absent” Pensacola convoy with much of its resources missing, apart
from its dive bombers which I “cheated” into the game, and the delayed arrival of bombers and PBY’s. Many US, Dutch and Australian units were also restricted
for the use envisioned in the scenario. PP’s shall eventually be neglected due to an aggressive Washington policy.

Other factors are the single and group-sailing ships ahead of and behind the Pensacola convoy. In main, the transports Ludington, Mauna Loa, Joseph Lykes,
Jane Christenson, Portmar Jupiter, Montgomery City and Malama. For simplicity I have assembled these in Pago Pago to be sent forward to Australia as it conforms
to their actual sailing times. These ships did not transport soldiers but enormous stacks of equipment. Among it 20 P-40’s, 24 75 mm guns, engineering equipment,
7 radar sets, aviation fuel, more than 500 vehicles and ammunition, infantry weaponry and equipment of all sorts.

If these ever make it to their hoped-for destinations the equipment shall, if possible, be integrated into the Philippine army units with the Editor and thereby
increase their efficiency. Oh, yes – the Editor. I hadn’t really planned to use it for this round but as I have been able to “infiltrate” it to some extent I
have made some minor modifications, mainly to the availability of units.

Finally, there were the many ships and units that had just left, or were about to leave, Hawaii and the West Coast for The Philippines. Some never sailed, some
were recalled. The 161st and 34th infantry regiments were ready to go, as was the 2nd Marine Brigade. Many supplementary units, too. These ships were Tasker
H. Bliss, President Garfield, President Polk, Etolin and President Johnson. They weren’t only to carry materiel but 14 army and air force units of various types
and sizes, among them 2 Field Artillery regiments with 3 battalions. Also 25 P-39’s and 9 P-40’s. What shall happen to them?

I’d like to repeat the three main factors making “my” scenario different from RL:

1. An aggressive US leadership, giving priority to the relief of the Philippines rather than to secure Hawaii and the US mainland.

2. A revised ABDA (ADA, really) policy to ensure the above. In effect a tighter cooperation with, and assistance from, the Dutch and Australians to establish
and secure a Relief Route (through The Moluccans) to the Philippines.

3. The Asiatic Fleet, and what USN resources are eventually assigned to the area, to be used solely for the purpose of relieving The Philippines.

I’d appreciate if my, and others’, time is not wasted on discussions on the feasibility of the project as such but, if there is a need for it, this is done in a
thread dedicated to that purpose. That said, any suggestions on the concrete operations such as they shall develop, are appreciated.
The task at hand here isn’t necessarily to “beat” the Japanese but to test the feasibility of the three pre-requisites.

December 7/8th 1941.

On this morning The Empire of Japan attacked US bases in the Far East and Pacific. Its forces have also landed on the east coast of the Malaya Peninsula. The US
Pacific Fleet in Pearl Harbor and the US Air Forces in the Philippines have suffered major losses. Japanese bombers have flown missions from Indo-China and
Formosa against targets in Malaya and Hong Kong. Politically, the Japanese aggression was expected, on November 27th a pre-warning was transmitted to US bases on
the possibility of an imminent Japanese attack. For several days there had been reports of large Japanese naval movements in the South China Sea. This resulted
in the British Admiral Phillips, in Manila for conferences with Admiral Hart, to return to Singapore poste haste.

After an extended crisis meeting in White House this evening, where representatives of the Army and Navy leadership participated, a new meeting is announced for
tomorrow. Unofficially, it was decided that the convoys enroute, and about to start their journey to The Philippines, should not be held back but instructed to
take a more southerly routing. There are rumors of serious disagreement in the leadership’s opinions on future actions.

After the meeting the Navy CNO, Admiral Stark, advised the Pacific Fleet to have a carrier return to PH immediately. Another carrier is meeting up with a strong
cruiser task force near Palmyra. Saratoga, in San Francisco, is also preparing to depart for Pearl Harbor.

In Pearl Harbor the work to repair all the damaged ships and aircraft has begun. 23 ships are in need of repair, priority is given to cruisers. Preliminary
estimates are that 5 can be back in about a month. CA Minneapolis is the only undamaged cruiser in port. Extensive patrolling by PBY’s is ordered.

In The Philippines fires in destroyed aircraft and burnt-down hangars are extinguished. Nowhere has the enemy set foot on US territory, except on the small Island
of Batan, north of Aparri, North Luzon. The heaviest bombing took place over Luzon but also a raid on Davao from a carrier TF NE Surigao Strait. The seaplane
tender William H. Preston was sunk near Davao.

In Manila port are 27 subs, 17 transports, 4 oilers, 8 support vessels, 4 DD’s and 9 MTB’s.

Following reports on Japanese naval movements Admiral Hart, CO Asiatic fleet, Manila, dispatch his subs to the N and NW of Luzon. His submarine commanders are
ordered to act aggressively against any enemy transport fleets. General Brereton has ordered extensive patrolling and eventual bombing by his remaining B-17’s
on the next day. The bombers stationed on Del Monte, Mindanao shall patrol the Visayas and look for the enemy CV force NE of Surigao.

General Douglas MacArthur, cheated on his hoped-for delay in a Japanese offensive till April 1942, pledges Washington to press on with all actual and planned
ships’ transports and suggest the Navy dedicate the Asiatic Fleet’s assets the mission to assist in the supply and relief of the Philippines. He is particular
about the need to reconstitute his bomber force after the first day’s losses.

Fred

That the AI was more aggressive, and reacted faster and more effectively than RL (my opinion), only contributes to the realism of the experiment.

I know you have a specific goal here, and that your desired endpoint colors your perception of the process, but I feel exactly the opposite based on my reading on this point in the war; the AI doesn't react as quickly (or effectively) as the Japanese in the war. [:)]

Do you have any examples in mind that I might have missed that show slow reactions by Japanese forces to Allied moves in the war?

Juggling with the “ships under repair” menus are quite cool. To introduce a certain degree of realism I have generally adapted the following system: As most of the
BB’s are safely lodged on the bottom of the harbor they cannot immediately be moved to pier-side or shipyard docks. Until further they are stuck with “repair ship”.
As time for this expires they can be moved to pier-side or a dock. As an example, Nevada needs 60 days repair by a repair ship before fixing her flotation problem
can start. At pier-side it’s 32 days. When, however, can she be moved pier-side? If she could have been moved immediately to a dock total repair time, including
the flotation problem, would have been 89 days.

It’s obviously important to consider the hash sign.

Fred