Matrix Games Forums

Sep/Oct 1939
Impulse: 11 (Axis)

Air Rebase:
Germany

A fighter rebases in the west to a more central position

Reorganisation: None


Turn Ends on less than a 6. A 3 is thrown.

When I tried a quick run-through of reorganisation I see the Italians have 1.45 to reorganise. After I used up the 1, the program wouldn't let me reorganise the remaining 0.45. Is this something peculiar to have just 1 oil available? I couldn't see anything to that effect in RAC.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

When I tried a quick run-through of reorganisation I see the Italians have 1.45 to reorganise. After I used up the 1, the program wouldn't let me reorganise the remaining 0.45. Is this something peculiar to have just 1 oil available? I couldn't see anything to that effect in RAC.

If you only have 1 oil you can't reorg more than 1 worth of units. Hint though. Click on,"Include oil from cooperating major powers" and you can use German oil to help you get the 0.45 additional. The only caveat is if Germany had a fraction of an oil point left (i.e., 0.55 to 0.95) after their Use Oil phase in which case you'd have to "finish" off that fractional German oil point before being able to tap into the Italian oil point. That is, if you chose to "Include oil from cooperating major powers" for Italy.

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: warspite1

When I tried a quick run-through of reorganisation I see the Italians have 1.45 to reorganise. After I used up the 1, the program wouldn't let me reorganise the remaining 0.45. Is this something peculiar to have just 1 oil available? I couldn't see anything to that effect in RAC.

If you only have 1 oil you can't reorg more than 1 worth of units.

warspite1

Thanks - is that in the rules? I couldn't see it but then I probably have missed it...

I don't need the file save until production. Reorganise everything with oil. No breakdowns.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: warspite1

When I tried a quick run-through of reorganisation I see the Italians have 1.45 to reorganise. After I used up the 1, the program wouldn't let me reorganise the remaining 0.45. Is this something peculiar to have just 1 oil available? I couldn't see anything to that effect in RAC.

If you only have 1 oil you can't reorg more than 1 worth of units.

warspite1

Thanks - is that in the rules? I couldn't see it but then I probably have missed it...

I don't know about the rules, I just know from experience that's how MWiF is coded. I'll asked the question on WiF groups site (https://groups.io/g/worldinflames/) specifically wrt/version 7 and see what they say. In fact I'll posts their responses.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: warspite1

When I tried a quick run-through of reorganisation I see the Italians have 1.45 to reorganise. After I used up the 1, the program wouldn't let me reorganise the remaining 0.45. Is this something peculiar to have just 1 oil available? I couldn't see anything to that effect in RAC.

If you only have 1 oil you can't reorg more than 1 worth of units.

warspite1

Thanks - is that in the rules? I couldn't see it but then I probably have missed it...

It sort of is in the rules. But should really need a clarification in the FAQ. I know this has been asked and discussed many times in the past.

The reasoning here is that you must trace to an oil in order to reorganize a unit. And you can not trace to an oil you do not have. Easy to see if you have no oil at all. But if you have 1 oil and want to reorganize for 1.4 oil, then the first units use up the oil and the remaining units have no oil to trace to since the only oil has already been used up. So you must have an oil to trace to in order to use the rounding.



RAC: 13.5.1 Oil (AfA option 48)
If you are playing with this option, you only automatically organize units during the final reorganization step
if they are not oil dependent. To organize oil dependent units, you must spend oil resources. Oil dependent units are
shown on the Unit costs chart (a separate PDF document).
[Clarification. You can use your own oil or oil from a co-operating major power to organize your units. Communist
and nationalist Chinese can use each other’s oil - Dec 28, 2007. Ships and aircraft at sea consume oil if
reorganized, but they do not need to trace a path to the oil resource. 2008 WIF Annual.]
You do not have to transport the oil anywhere. But you must be able to trace a path from the unit to the oil
resource. This path is exactly like a basic supply path (including via overseas) (see 2.4.2) except that it can be of
any length. [Clarification. Only oil in friendly territory may be used. This means that oil in Persia and Venezuela
can not be used if it resides in neutral territory - Jan. 30, 1997. Co-operating major powers may freely use each
other’s oil, provided the owner agrees. 2008 WIF Annual.]
No more than 5 units can trace a path to the same oil resource.
Work out how many oil dependent units you want to organize. Each HQ-I counts as 2 units, each HQ-A
counts as 3 and each aircraft that takes 2 turns to build counts as half a unit. Divide the total by 5. This is the
minimum number of oil resources (whether from the current turn or saved) that you must spend. This means that you
can organize 2 units for nothing (because 0.4 rounds to zero).
If 3 or more units trace a path to the same oil resource, you must spend that resource. This may mean that
you will have to spend more oil resources than the minimum number.
Example: You have only 2 oil resources and 6 disorganized oil dependent units. You will have to spend a
minimum of 1 oil resource to organize them because 6/5 = 1.2, which rounds to 1. You will only have to spend the
minimum if 4 or 5 of the units can trace a path to the same resource. But suppose that 3 units can only trace to 1 of
the resources and the other 3 can only trace to the second resource. In that case, you would have to spend both
resources to organize all 6 units.
Each naval unit (CVPiF/SiF option 56: or carrier plane) you organize counts as half a unit and each convoy
point counts as a quarter of a unit.
CLiF option 75: Each CA or CL you organize counts as a quarter of a unit.

September/December 1939
Impulse: End of Turn Malarchy - EuroAxis

Neutrality Pact:
2 x Defensive Chits please.

Production Planning:

Germany

Oil Situation:

2 x Oil from Romania (both saved in Berlin)
2 x Oil from USSR (both to production)
1 x Oil from Austria (saved in Berlin)
1 x Oil from Germany (saved in Berlin)

3 Oil last turn so should be 7 (less what is used to reorganise)
15 Build Points (incl. 0 saved)

Italy

Oil Situation:

1 x Oil from Romania (saved in Milan)
2 Build Points (incl. 0 saved)

1 Oil last turn so should be 2 (less what is used to reorganise)


Stay At Sea:

Italy

Convoys only

Germany

Convoys only

Return to Base:

N/a

Oil Reorganisation:

Germany

Reorganise all for 2.0 Oil (2 Oil expended) - Use the German and Austrian resource for this.

Italy

Tick include oil from other cooperating major powers

Reorganise all (except 0.45 worth) for 1.0 Oil (1 Oil expended) - Use Milan Oil. Then use a German oil from Berlin for 0.45 and don't expend it.

Breakdown:

Germany

The MOT in southern Poland is broken down


Production:
Germany

Scrap the three LND (1 x Hs123, 1 x Do-17E, 1 x He-111B)

3 x PIL
1 x LND (2)
1 x NAV (3)
1 x FTR (3)
1 x SUB Construction

Italy

Scrap the two 3-quality fighters

1 x PIL

Reinforcement:
Germany

Aachen: 6-3 INF, He-112
Dusseldorf: 2-6 ARM DIV
Essen: 3-3 ART

Italy

Turin: Macchi Saetta, 4-5 MOT

Trade Agreement:

Germany

2 Build Points and 1 oil to Italy


No Re-Roll even if I have one
If I get the chance to move first I will.



MEMO ITEM:

Germany
Oil (5 x Berlin) = 5
0 x Build Points (0)

Italy
Oil (1 x Milan) = 1
0 x Build Point (0)

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: warspite1

When I tried a quick run-through of reorganisation I see the Italians have 1.45 to reorganise. After I used up the 1, the program wouldn't let me reorganise the remaining 0.45. Is this something peculiar to have just 1 oil available? I couldn't see anything to that effect in RAC.

If you only have 1 oil you can't reorg more than 1 worth of units. Hint though. Click on,"Include oil from cooperating major powers" and you can use German oil to help you get the 0.45 additional. The only caveat is if Germany had a fraction of an oil point left (i.e., 0.55 to 0.95) after their Use Oil phase in which case you'd have to "finish" off that fractional German oil point before being able to tap into the Italian oil point. That is, if you chose to "Include oil from cooperating major powers" for Italy.

warspite1

So I tried this.

Germany has 2 points worth of units to reorganise. I use 2 oil to reorganise all. I seemingly can't do anything cleverer than that to husband the 0.4.

So then Italy has 1.45 points worth of units to reorganise. I click on use other power's oil.

I use 1 Italian oil to reorganise 1 points worth. I can't use the 0.45 'allowance' because of the reasons stated above (I have zero Italian oil left after the initial expenditure).

So instead I use a German oil and use the remaining 0.45 on that. Now because I don't need to expend that oil (as 0.45 only) then there will be no additional reduction to the German oil position.

Note: when I got to the end of the turn and checked my oil, there was three on the map but 5 saved in the production planning form [X(] but we can worry about that later.

The most important thing is: In doing what I've done (i.e. using the German oil in this way) should I still get the free hit or, because I've used German oil do I need to expend a full German oil? The program proceeded as though I don't have to - but I am concerned by the 'missing' oil.



So I tried it again and the 'problem' remains. I started with 3 saved German oil and added 4 this turn = 7. I used 2 to reorganise all German units = 5. I started with 1 Italian oil and saved one = 2. I then used 1 Italian oil to reorganise 1 point worth of Italian units = 1, and then 0.45 of a German oil to reorganise the remainder. This point was NOT expended (I was able to click on OK to proceed) and the program accepted that. The result should therefore be 5 German oils but I have only 4. Is this WAD or should the 0.45 not have been consumed?

You get the free use of the 0.45 German oil. This adds between the two countries, so if Germany used .05 of an oil and Italy used 0.45 of German oil, Germany would have to expend an oil point.

End of turn.
No partisans.
2 defensive neutrality pact markers for Germany. Total 4 garr. pts
1 defensive marker for USSR. 4pts
USA draws a 3pts marker vs Japan.

Also oil use is before oil is saved, so don’t count the new oil coming in as part of the calculations.

EXCEPT - you can use oil produced in a hex you control to re-organize units that same turn. Germany has 2 such hexes at start.

Oil coming in from a trade agreement can not be used to re-organize units that same turn.


If Italy joins the war with only one oil saved, it is quite common to have some units unable to re-org after the first turn of the war.

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

You get the free use of the 0.45 German oil. This adds between the two countries, so if Germany used .05 of an oil and Italy used 0.45 of German oil, Germany would have to expend an oil point.

warspite1

So guys, unless you can NOT reproduce this problem (although I've tried twice now) when you run through the end of turn malarchy, then we have a bug and a problem we need to decide on a solution for.

I think I previously encountered this issue with using another MPs oil that warspite1 has. And it might very well be a bug here.

You cannot use 0.45 oil from an oil resource and save the remaining 0.55 as a complete oil in Berlin.
The program does not allow it.
When you use oil for Germany simply use the two resources you have and dont touch the saved oil in Berlin.
Problem solved.

ORIGINAL: WILHELM_slith

You cannot use 0.45 oil from an oil resource and save the remaining 0.55 as a complete oil in Berlin.
The program does not allow it.
When you use oil for Germany simply use the two resources you have and dont touch the saved oil in Berlin.
Problem solved.

warspite1

Well whaddya know? It worked. All Italians reorganised AND 5 Oil in Berlin!! Cool!!

So as per above, I used the German Oil resources (and NOT the saved oil in Berlin) for the Germans.

Then I used the Italian Oil to reorganise 1 point worth of units. I then used a saved Oil in Berlin for 0.45 and didn't expend.

Move forward to the end of the turn and.... voila! it has worked. I am the proud owner of a fully reorganised fleet and 5 Oil sitting in the German capital.

So who is doing what now? In other games I've been involved in the CW has always done the end of turn stuff for everyone (on the basis that sometimes the game appears to have got corrupted when saving and re-opening the End of Turn sequence multiple times - and they have more to do on the whole convoy/naval thing).

That is not being done here. Okay fine. But as things stand I have a copy of the game at Stay at Sea phase but don't know who is supposed to do what next.

I have posted the detailed EuroAxis orders (amended for the Oil above). Just let me know what is proposed here please.

It is my first game and I do not know what are the unwritten rules.
I got a message from Wilhelm yesterday so I will do everything up until building then.

Best would be if all do the same thing then, i.e running through the end step and posting a comprehensive list of things they want done. Right now I have Ge/It end of turn but not any of the others.

As I am new to this it is great if I am informed when it is I that is supposed to do something.

I think its best now if the Commonw player moves on from the Stay at sea phase.
Just click through the axis because we have only convoys at sea.
Resolve all the RTB return to base for the allies.
I need the file back for oil. I can do anything for the axis because Warspite gave very detailed info.
But we have to work out who is doing what for future turns.

Ronnie and I had a talk the other day about making a "Do´s and Don´ts" of PBEM where we articulate what are the expectations and unwritten rules of PBEM-play.

I am now doing 3 games at the same time.
In one game it my three friends from home and me that battle it out via a shared screens on discord. We are all there at the same time and things move along quickly, a bit too quickly sometimes, as one player on each side is making the moves. It is fun and fast-paced but perhaps not always so strategically perfect.
In the second game I am playing against Ronnie and we use skype to send messages. When it is a hectic moment we are both present as there is a lot of back and forth (when there is a lot of interceptions and aircombat for instance). The pace is certainly slower than the first game as we ponder our turns and try to send orders as complete as possible so that the other person can finish the turn.
This is the third game where are 4 people using the forums mainly and we are certainly having some initial issues on the pace of play. I have a nagging feeling we are sometimes waiting for someone to take charge of moving it along but I have a hard time knowing when it me that should be the one.