Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The benefit of shipping supplies to Panama is the ships that arrive there can load supplies then move out instead of going to the West Coast to load or back to the East Coast.

Have some large tankers moving fuel from the East Coast to Capetown. From there if there is a build up, that is fine. When you start moving large, escorted convoys out from Cape Town then you will need the fuel. You can also stage fuel and supplies from Cape Town to Mombasa. You could also move supplies from Cape Town, to Aden and thence to Karachi limiting you on map exposure.

Oil could go from Abaden, to Aden and thence to Cape Town for shipment to Australia but you are better off moving fuel. Let the Australian oil refinery workers find another defence job or let them join the military so they won't be around the young ladies for when the American arrive. [:D]

Since the Fuel at Abadan should not spoil, it can stay there but use the smaller tankers to move some to Karachi and Aden. The xAKls can move the extra supplies from there out.

RJ, I don't need to load ships in Panama.

My convoy system is rather built around massive convoys which leave West Coast. I don't send from Panama to final destinations in any case.
It adds few days of relative inefficiency due to the Panama-West Coast trip, but it's not a big deal in the big picture.


When I say "massive" I mean that my convoys are up to multiple 100-ships TFs (this in '44, for the time being I'm still organizing the system).
F.ex. currently I have something like 180 ships moving from Australia/NZ to West Coast. Over there, they'll be split up accordingly to speed/endurance/capacity and start the first runs.
Having cargoes going from Panama to onmap destination is not in my planning, since I prefer to gather them on the West Coast and attach them to long range convoys.

Consider also that in order to keep Panama filled up, I need to reduce the shipments to CT and, given my CBI-centric grand strategy, it's less than idea to do so.



What's the point of Mombasa?



Abadan-Aden. I do what I can but currently ALL the TK/AO I have are allocated to ship as much fuel as I can to Australia. Same with many cargoes for supplies.
I desperately need to ship hundreds of tons of stuff over there, should the area be temporarily closed in the next weeks/months.
Once things settle a little bit, I'll start using the shortest-legged TKs to move fuel from Abadan to Karachi.
What about Aden instead? It looks like it doesn't need much fuel after all or am I missing something?

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The benefit of shipping supplies to Panama is the ships that arrive there can load supplies then move out instead of going to the West Coast to load or back to the East Coast.

Have some large tankers moving fuel from the East Coast to Capetown. From there if there is a build up, that is fine. When you start moving large, escorted convoys out from Cape Town then you will need the fuel. You can also stage fuel and supplies from Cape Town to Mombasa. You could also move supplies from Cape Town, to Aden and thence to Karachi limiting you on map exposure.

Oil could go from Abaden, to Aden and thence to Cape Town for shipment to Australia but you are better off moving fuel. Let the Australian oil refinery workers find another defence job or let them join the military so they won't be around the young ladies for when the American arrive. [:D]

Since the Fuel at Abadan should not spoil, it can stay there but use the smaller tankers to move some to Karachi and Aden. The xAKls can move the extra supplies from there out.

I built decent stockpiles of supply and fuel at Cristobal and to a lesser extent Balboa just by using the stockpile buttons and demand increase buttons. The only place I had to ship to (one convoy) was Port Stanley as I built up the port and AF there for VPs and potential pivot point to supply SOPAC, should the Japanese control too much of the path from Panama.

That's great news.

So you say I can increase demand and supplies/fuel will be somehow shipped there?! I was living under the conviction that it wouldn't be possible to do this for offmap locations!

That's really a good thing.



I don't see Port Stanley as a useful logistical location. Does someone have different opinions on the subject?
My logic is that it's much easier to ship from West Coast to Australia/SOPAC than shipping stuff to Port Stanley and from there to Australia/SOPAC. Even considering the losses due to subs (not that many in any case), the amount shipped should be much higher than a losses-free move from Port Stanley. I don't see it so advantageous, but maybe I'm missing something?

The benefit gained from using all the Off Map bases (Mombasa et al which are located on the "y" axis) is that you vary the On Map entry point for TFs leaving the Off Map bases.

TFs enter On Map at the "y" coordinate of the On Map destination port. If you only ship from Cape Town to a single Australian port, it makes it easy for the IJN to place patrolling subs (with occasional mini KB visits) to patrol the entry hex.

Alfred

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The benefit gained from using all the Off Map bases (Mombasa et al which are located on the "y" axis) is that you vary the On Map entry point for TFs leaving the Off Map bases.

TFs enter On Map at the "y" coordinate of the On Map destination port. If you only ship from Cape Town to a single Australian port, it makes it easy for the IJN to place patrolling subs (with occasional mini KB visits) to patrol the entry hex.

Alfred

It's my understanding I can do it anyway?

F.ex. I select Dunedin as destination port for CT-Perth route and then, when the convoy gets onmap from CT at Dunedin's Y coordinates, I reroute to Perth.

I constantly do it, but maybe I have misunderstood what you meant?



EDIT: Thanks God you finished your holidays, Alfred! Here the business is getting trickier every turn [:D]

You should read the AAR from your opponent against AndyMac.

Mombasa is a nice base to run to, a few units will ship arrive there, and it will also spread out the "sigint" that your opponent receives.

Port Stanley is good if you opponent seriously endangers ships moving from the West Coast to New Zealand and Australia.

I would ship fuel from the East Coast to Cape Town and not from Abadan to Cape Town since there is no on map exposure.

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You should read the AAR from your opponent against AndyMac.

Mombasa is a nice base to run to, a few units will ship arrive there, and it will also spread out the "sigint" that your opponent receives.

Port Stanley is good if you opponent seriously endangers ships moving from the West Coast to New Zealand and Australia.

I would ship fuel from the East Coast to Cape Town and not from Abadan to Cape Town since there is no on map exposure.

All his posts on the forum have been studied thoroughly with notes, don't worry [;)]

SigInt spreading is a good thing indeed.

Mombasa has few units arriving, but not that many. I'll have a deeper look as soon as I have the game.

Port Stanley: ok. Understood.

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The benefit gained from using all the Off Map bases (Mombasa et al which are located on the "y" axis) is that you vary the On Map entry point for TFs leaving the Off Map bases.

TFs enter On Map at the "y" coordinate of the On Map destination port. If you only ship from Cape Town to a single Australian port, it makes it easy for the IJN to place patrolling subs (with occasional mini KB visits) to patrol the entry hex.

Alfred

It's my understanding I can do it anyway?

F.ex. I select Dunedin as destination port for CT-Perth route and then, when the convoy gets onmap from CT at Dunedin's Y coordinates, I reroute to Perth.

I constantly do it, but maybe I have misunderstood what you meant?



EDIT: Thanks God you finished your holidays, Alfred! Here the business is getting trickier every turn [:D]

What you do works for varying map entry point. You do not even have to choose a base to do that, you can set any hex near the map edge as your destination (with remain on station orders or an on-map home base to prevent it going back) and give it new orders when it appears on map. The disadvantage is that every time you give new orders you have a chance of giving the enemy SIGINT about the location of the TF.

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Cape Town does not get a lot of supplies right away. From Cape Town, you can have single TFs of 17 knot xAKs hauling supplies with a little fuel to Perth or other ports in Australia.

Early on Cape Town will need fuel from the US too or ships will sit there with dry tanks.

witpqs, thanks for the information. I somehow thought it wouldn't have been necessary provided a good stream from Abadan to India (thus, making ships refuel onmap in India rather than CT).

I'll try to fix this oversight from my side immediately. Thank you again.

You need the fuel in India to generate supply. Certainly for the defense if he attacks, but also when you finally go on the general offensive you will need to have stockpiled lots of supply.

Until you get a large enough number of really long range cargo ships in place, the Cape Town - Bombay (of wherever) route will be a bit of a stretch without refueling at the destination. If you have escorts with a convoy, ships with less than a certain percentage will not give up fuel to refuel other ships. So while the ideal is to run ships from Cape Town with "Do Not Refuel" set so they don't take fuel from India, that will hurt their escorts.

That's not a big problem, because you won't have enough escorts for them anyway! Sometimes you will struggle to find enough escorts for troop and aircraft convoys, forget about most supply convoys. You might have to resort to concentrating escorts to sweep the convoy lanes instead.

Abadan is a small port so loading there will be slow until you get it built up. That will take a long time unless you send in engineers, but you won't because they are needed too badly elsewhere. Convoys from Abadan will be prime I-boat bait just like the ones from Cape Town.

Be careful not to empty all supply out of Aden or units which arrive there will starve while they wait for transport, and the assigned base force will constantly starve.

Eventually the scenario convoys which arrive at Cape Town with devices for the pools, fuel, and supply will eventually boost the fuel stocks enough to start sending fuel to India or Australia, but that will be a while and you have to watch and manage the fuel situation carefully.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: witpqs



Early on Cape Town will need fuel from the US too or ships will sit there with dry tanks.

witpqs, thanks for the information. I somehow thought it wouldn't have been necessary provided a good stream from Abadan to India (thus, making ships refuel onmap in India rather than CT).

I'll try to fix this oversight from my side immediately. Thank you again.

You need the fuel in India to generate supply. Certainly for the defense if he attacks, but also when you finally go on the general offensive you will need to have stockpiled lots of supply.

Until you get a large enough number of really long range cargo ships in place, the Cape Town - Bombay (of wherever) route will be a bit of a stretch without refueling at the destination. If you have escorts with a convoy, ships with less than a certain percentage will not give up fuel to refuel other ships. So while the ideal is to run ships from Cape Town with "Do Not Refuel" set so they don't take fuel from India, that will hurt their escorts.

That's not a big problem, because you won't have enough escorts for them anyway! Sometimes you will struggle to find enough escorts for troop and aircraft convoys, forget about most supply convoys. You might have to resort to concentrating escorts to sweep the convoy lanes instead.

Abadan is a small port so loading there will be slow until you get it built up. That will take a long time unless you send in engineers, but you won't because they are needed too badly elsewhere. Convoys from Abadan will be prime I-boat bait just like the ones from Cape Town.

Be careful not to empty all supply out of Aden or units which arrive there will starve while they wait for transport, and the assigned base force will constantly starve.

Eventually the scenario convoys which arrive at Cape Town with devices for the pools, fuel, and supply will eventually boost the fuel stocks enough to start sending fuel to India or Australia, but that will be a while and you have to watch and manage the fuel situation carefully.

He said he is already in 1944, which means most of the crisis has passed and the Mediterranean is open for convoys direct to Aden.
In the early game I ran fuel convoys direct from Abadan (stock map has a direct connection without on-map travel). I had lots of xAPs to park at Aden waiting for reinforcements to arrive but a lot of those units needed to fill out and gain some experience while improving morale. So I left the units at Aden to develop in safety and to build the port and AF there.

As soon as they were viable (unit Exp. about 50) I sent them on-map, often to Karachi or Bombay to transit to Calcutta by rail and then by ship, rail or aircraft to their real destination. Minimal exposure to interdiction is part of the game.

He said he is already in 1944

Wait a minute, on the prior page he's got a date of 1941. Did I miss a time warp?

ORIGINAL: witpqs

He said he is already in 1944

Wait a minute, on the prior page he's got a date of 1941. Did I miss a time warp?

You're right. We're playing now 29-DEC-1941.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that this is the farthest I've ever been as Allied player, but that I have a fair late war experience since I have an allied game which I took over from 01-JAN-1944.

Basically, I have a gap on allied gameplay from 28-DEC-1941 to 01-JAN-1944

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: witpqs

He said he is already in 1944

Wait a minute, on the prior page he's got a date of 1941. Did I miss a time warp?

You're right. We're playing now 29-DEC-1941.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that this is the farthest I've ever been as Allied player, but that I have a fair late war experience since I have an allied game which I took over from 01-JAN-1944.

Basically, I have a gap on allied gameplay from 28-DEC-1941 to 01-JAN-1944

Whew! Fought off insanity for one more week! [:D]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: witpqs


Wait a minute, on the prior page he's got a date of 1941. Did I miss a time warp?

You're right. We're playing now 29-DEC-1941.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that this is the farthest I've ever been as Allied player, but that I have a fair late war experience since I have an allied game which I took over from 01-JAN-1944.

Basically, I have a gap on allied gameplay from 28-DEC-1941 to 01-JAN-1944

Whew! Fought off insanity for one more week! [:D]

And pushed back senility ghost for two [:D][:D][:D]

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: witpqs

He said he is already in 1944

Wait a minute, on the prior page he's got a date of 1941. Did I miss a time warp?

You're right. We're playing now 29-DEC-1941.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that this is the farthest I've ever been as Allied player, but that I have a fair late war experience since I have an allied game which I took over from 01-JAN-1944.

Basically, I have a gap on allied gameplay from 28-DEC-1941 to 01-JAN-1944

Ah, I did not understand you were referencing a different game! I read many AARs so I cannot always keep track of the game date if it is not specifically at the top of each action report. That's the senility part for me!

Whew! Fought off insanity for one more week!

Pfft!!! What're you talking about, you're here, you're already insane!!![:D]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Whew! Fought off insanity for one more week!

Pfft!!! What're you talking about, you're here, you're already insane!!![:D]

Certified!

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

ORIGINAL: witpqs


Wait a minute, on the prior page he's got a date of 1941. Did I miss a time warp?

You're right. We're playing now 29-DEC-1941.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that this is the farthest I've ever been as Allied player, but that I have a fair late war experience since I have an allied game which I took over from 01-JAN-1944.

Basically, I have a gap on allied gameplay from 28-DEC-1941 to 01-JAN-1944

Ah, I did not understand you were referencing a different game! I read many AARs so I cannot always keep track of the game date if it is not specifically at the top of each action report. That's the senility part for me!

No worries! After years and years of relationship I still cannot spell my partner's name [:D][:D][:D][:D]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Whew! Fought off insanity for one more week!

Pfft!!! What're you talking about, you're here, you're already insane!!![:D]

[;)][;)][;)]

[center]29-30 DECEMBER 1941
TURN 23-24[/center]


I. NOPAC

Nothing happened here.


II. CENPAC

I've bought out a regiment of the 25th Infantry Division from PH for Pago Pago.

Various islands still heavily underdefended but working on that.


III. SOPAC

To my surprise, KB is striking industrial targets in Australia. He's made some VPs out of RESOURCES. The attacks on RESOURCES puzzle me: if he'd strike industry, I'd be quite relieved since it would lower the likelihood of he aiming to an Australian campaign.

Strangely enough, after he captured Rabaul he hasn't gone further (yet). I know from SigInt he has moved tanks and a regiment or two to Truk, so I suppose he's going to strike down south soon, since I guess those troops are not at all for defense.

My naval forces are very thin. I have 1xCL+15xDD at Auckland where they just refueled. Something like 2xCA+4xCL+12xDMS are instead further NORTH currently controlling the sea between Noumea and Salomons (not that they'll survive a second if he decides to go to Noumea with KB cover).

I opted not to reinforce Noumea and sent the few Australian reinforcements to Suva instead.

Many convoys are moving around.


IV. DEI

Here the situation is bizarre. He landed in Tarakan on the 29th of December 1941 and on the 30th he got the base. Singkawang survives instead, repelling Japanese assaults.
OIL in Palembang reaches 42 points of damage. Not a big deal but better than nothing.

My forces are concentrated around Java. Soon Singapore will fall and he will be allowed to move upwards from it along the Malacca Strait, which is deemed acceptable from my perspective.

On the 30th I also do a minor action at Ambon with the French DD Le Triomphant and sink two IJN xAKs. Nothing to write home, but still putting a little bit of doubt in Japanese commands maybe?

USN CV Saratoga leaves Cape Town headed to Cocos Island, while the 2 CVs already present refuel and wait for her. A damaged CL and a damaged CA somehow survive the sub gauntlet SOUTH-EAST of Soerabaja and are probably able to reach a friendly harbor. The CL Mauritius has 56 major floating damage, but I trust the crew will keep it afloat.


V. CBI

Here it's a mess. In Burma he's advancing with 650AV and he's now moving from Moulmein. I have around 600AV in Rangoon, which should be fine.
Madras and Calcutta are heavily defended and troops there are gaining strength every single day. That's very important.
Soon a convoy will arrive in Cape Town and it will be possible to distribute some better devices to my troops.

China is a disaster. See map below.

On the 30th I attack on the mountain NORTH of Ankang and obtain a 1:2 which is perfectly fine since his 60AV unit cannot sustain even losses against my much larger LCU.

Omar is trying to move around Sian with 1,000AV and I have in Sian area roughly 4,500AV. I plan to let him move around me and then start my flanking movements.
This is becoming a SOP in China from my side. He concentrates his forces and smashes what he faces, but I just let the storm pass and then move around his powerful stacks. It's a very costly process in terms of dead troops, but Chinese are quite notorious for being many [:D][:D][:D]

I keep having very positive results with Flying Tigers but now I opted to give them some days of rest. Changsha just received via railway 2xAA+1xAT.

Ankang road crisis is bad, but not that awful maybe. I guess I should be able to fix it.


VI. OTHER

Nothing relevant.


China situation on the 29th of December:

To my surprise, KB is striking industrial targets in Australia. He's made some VPs out of RESOURCES. The attacks on RESOURCES puzzle me: if he'd strike industry, I'd be quite relieved since it would lower the likelihood of he aiming to an Australian campaign.

Low hanging VP's for the IJ. Often undefended, and with limited flak and fighters in Oz this early, not very much that you can do with it at all.