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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:19 pm
by koniu
Nice to find a use for Buffalos! These guys weren't at all trained for low naval, and still sank all of the barges they could reach.
Fighters when set to naval attack mission at 1000 ft or lower will always go to 100ft and will strafe target, so probably they use strafe skill not low naval.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:24 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: koniu
Nice to find a use for Buffalos! These guys weren't at all trained for low naval, and still sank all of the barges they could reach.
Fighters when set to naval attack mission at 1000 ft or lower will always go to 100ft and will strafe target, so probably they use strafe skill not low naval.
True, but if they are set at 1000 feet and carrying bombs, they will also drop the bombs, which probably uses the LowNav skill in the calculations.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:26 pm
by witpqs
AFAIK Low Nav/Grd is what is used when bombs are dropped, and Strafe skill only applies to use of guns. I think a developer answered this a while back but I don't have a reference.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:47 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: witpqs
AFAIK Low Nav/Grd is what is used when bombs are dropped, and Strafe skill only applies to use of guns. I think a developer answered this a while back but I don't have a reference.
I have been using B-25D1's at 100 ft on naval attack to great effect. I have not trained them in Naval or Low Naval, only Strafe. They hit stuff. Sank a couple of DDs recently.
However, I have noticed when using my IJAAF fighters against Bullwinkle in China that, at 100 ft, I am increasing both the Strafe and LowG skills on my guys. I will check my B-25D1 pilots in this upcoming turn, in just a few minutes.
EDIT: Yep, all my guys have "white" LowNav skills. I used them on Naval at 100 ft. This is just one data point and it's entirely possible that they all failed "level up" rolls from attacking the ships, but that would surprise me given that many are "orange" in GrdB, and I had them do one day of Airfield attack recently from a normal altitude. Strafe is all "white" also, but then their Strafe skills are all 70+ so that's not surprising.
Maybe it's different because they're attack bombers?
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:03 pm
by witpqs
Keep in mind that Experience always counts for something, as do leader stats. Not surprising they can hit something with little of the specific skill - at only 100 ft and with 6x bombs as there is no reduction for Attack Bombers at low altitude.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:48 am
by obvert
Nick is really busy at work so the game is on hold for a bit after some rapid fire turns over the weekend. It's kind of good break for me. It's been going fast lately and I can use some time to plan the next steps.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:14 am
by ny59giants
The big question I see is how many Americans and Australians do you keep in India?? If you move them out, I would go to Cape Town and then to Australia rather than run down the western map edge. Lots of new objectives to be prepping for. [;)]
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:41 am
by obvert
ORIGINAL: ny59giants
The big question I see is how many Americans and Australians do you keep in India?? If you move them out, I would go to Cape Town and then to Australia rather than run down the western map edge. Lots of new objectives to be prepping for. [;)]
This is the difficulty. Planning prep for units.
I'm saving to buy out divisions now and more free ones will appear this year as well, including a new Indian division soon at 70 exp. I have many split and prepping for smaller targets in the Pacific and that will end once those objectives are accomplished, then the staggered planning for the bigger future objectives can begin. There are a lot of places where I might be able to go around big fortifications though, and that's something that I'd like to plan for but can't really depend on until I get just a touch closer to Rabaul, Umboi Island, Kusaei, etc.
I'll keep a few US units in the CBI area. There is still a lot to potentially fight for and I won't know how much until I move a bit closer to NE India. I can't yet relax there. It's easy to think of those units remaining useful in the area though if I want to make an amphibious landing anywhere in the IO.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:55 pm
by Lowpe
ORIGINAL: obvert
It's easy to think of those units remaining useful in the area though if I want to make an amphibious landing anywhere in the IO.
Do you have any grand strategy as in attacking Japan's economic engines (oil,fuel,supply)? A major thrust at Sumatra for example, once Ceylon is yours.
Or will you continue to advance by taking the low hanging fruit and being opportunistic letting the grand strategy evolve?
I think you are in great shape, and you have weathered a very aggressive opening very well. [&o] Can't wait to see how it all develops. Play faster![:D]
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:45 pm
by obvert
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
ORIGINAL: obvert
It's easy to think of those units remaining useful in the area though if I want to make an amphibious landing anywhere in the IO.
Do you have any grand strategy as in attacking Japan's economic engines (oil,fuel,supply)? A major thrust at Sumatra for example, once Ceylon is yours.
Or will you continue to advance by taking the low hanging fruit and being opportunistic letting the grand strategy evolve?
I think you are in great shape, and you have weathered a very aggressive opening very well. [&o] Can't wait to see how it all develops. Play faster![:D]
Ha! We're trying! Stupid things like work keep getting in the way!
Nick did just send a turn, which was great timing as my day finished here.
This will be an assessment period as I learn from SIGINT and scouting where some of his forces have gone, figure out what options I like the most and continue the slow and careful approach in SW Pac/So Pac/Cent Pac. Those will move no matter what, but usually with periodic surges and building phases. Right now I'm building the bases around Milne Bay and Shortlands, and once those are functional, I have some Hellcats to combat the Georges, and if nothing else changes, I'll have some bigger moves happening along the two paths.
I have grand strategy ideas, but they don't involve anything rigid that I'm completely committed to doing. I do know where I felt vulnerable playing Japan, and that will help. I do plan to try a lot of deception as the Allied forces grow to hopefully be able to try multiple things that could work depending on the reactions.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:26 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Keep in mind that Experience always counts for something, as do leader stats. Not surprising they can hit something with little of the specific skill - at only 100 ft and with 6x bombs as there is no reduction for Attack Bombers at low altitude.
Interesting info witpqs - is there a developers reference or manual entry that specifies what the reductions are for various altitudes?
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:33 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Keep in mind that Experience always counts for something, as do leader stats. Not surprising they can hit something with little of the specific skill - at only 100 ft and with 6x bombs as there is no reduction for Attack Bombers at low altitude.
Interesting info witpqs - is there a developers reference or manual entry that specifies what the reductions are for various altitudes?
Not that I know of. AFAIK when a non-Attack Bomber goes to 'low' altitude its bomb load is cut in half. I think that means below 5,000 ft for 2EB and maybe the same for 4EB, but others should chime in with what they know.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:57 pm
by HansBolter
ORIGINAL: witpqs
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Keep in mind that Experience always counts for something, as do leader stats. Not surprising they can hit something with little of the specific skill - at only 100 ft and with 6x bombs as there is no reduction for Attack Bombers at low altitude.
Interesting info witpqs - is there a developers reference or manual entry that specifies what the reductions are for various altitudes?
Not that I know of. AFAIK when a non-Attack Bomber goes to 'low' altitude its bomb load is cut in half. I think that means below 5,000 ft for 2EB and maybe the same for 4EB, but others should chime in with what they know.
I thought it was below 6000 for any type but attack bombers and fighters/fighter bombers.
Alfred will likely have the definitive answer.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:27 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: witpqs
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Keep in mind that Experience always counts for something, as do leader stats. Not surprising they can hit something with little of the specific skill - at only 100 ft and with 6x bombs as there is no reduction for Attack Bombers at low altitude.
Interesting info witpqs - is there a developers reference or manual entry that specifies what the reductions are for various altitudes?
Not that I know of. AFAIK when a non-Attack Bomber goes to 'low' altitude its bomb load is cut in half. I think that means below 5,000 ft for 2EB and maybe the same for 4EB, but others should chime in with what they know.
Oh-oh: Apples & oranges. I thought the reduction you referred to was in the calculation of hits where altitude is a factor, not bombload reduction.
I know when I set P-40Es to bomb Low Nav or Low Grd with a 500 lb bomb, there is no reduction of bomb size.
I will look in the War Room FAQ post to see if bombload is covered there.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:09 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: witpqs
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Interesting info witpqs - is there a developers reference or manual entry that specifies what the reductions are for various altitudes?
Not that I know of. AFAIK when a non-Attack Bomber goes to 'low' altitude its bomb load is cut in half. I think that means below 5,000 ft for 2EB and maybe the same for 4EB, but others should chime in with what they know.
Oh-oh: Apples & oranges.
I thought the reduction you referred to was in the calculation of hits where altitude is a factor, not bombload reduction.
I know when I set P-40Es to bomb Low Nav or Low Grd with a 500 lb bomb, there is no reduction of bomb size.
I will look in the War Room FAQ post to see if bombload is covered there.
About that I have absolutely no idea. I only know it's a factor.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:44 pm
by BBfanboy
Found the info on bomb loads and skill effects in the War Room FAQs for Newbies:
tm.asp?m=2260137
7.2.1.10 IMPACT OF ORDANCE ON AIR MISSIONS:
tm.asp?m=2582278
Bomb Loadout
Replacement load for torpedo is usually:
Allied - 1 or 2 x 500lb bombs
Japanese - 1 x 800kg,
or 1 or 2 x 250kg for non-LBA
or 1 or 2 x 250kg and 2 or 4 x 60kg for LBA
The settings are for normal range and over normal respectively.
tm.asp?m=2466161
A Land Based Aircraft which is not classed as an attack-bomber and flies a low level mission will fly with half the usual bomb load.
This was to help stop every LBA from becoming a low-level ship killer.
Only the LBAs classed as attack-bombers get to fly with the 'full' load appropriate to the range.
Allied attack bombers:
A-20G, A-20A1, A-26B
B-25D1, B-25G, B-25H, B-25J11
PBJ-1H
tm.asp?m=2556647
Attack Bombers
- Set Altitude <6,000 (low Level)
- Altitude >6,000 Treated as Normal LB
- Altitude <6,000 increased accuracy vs TF
- Altitude <6,000 & Ground / Naval Attack will Increase Strafe Skill
- No Way to Train Strafe Skill
- Naval Targets - Will attack in Pairs
- Ground Targets – Will attack in two pairs
- Will Bomb Target at 100’ then Strafe at 100’
- Strafing Will Suppress Flak, Strafe Skill >70 will increase suppression
Non-Attack Bombers
- Altitude <1,000 gain higher Fatigue from Flak
- Altitude <6,000 reduced accuracy if low morale / high fatigue
- Altitude <7,000 reduced accuracy vs TF
- No Min Exp / Skill to execute Low Level type attack.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:21 pm
by Lokasenna
I can tell you from flying my bombers at 2000 feet that the threshold for non-ABs having reduced bombload is the "low naval" or "low ground" threshold, which is 1000.
100 = strafing. May also use LowG skill, have seen no evidence of it using LowN but someone would have to test.
1000 = low naval/low ground. Reduced bombload except for attack bombers.
2000+ = regular ground, regular naval. Regular bomb load.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:38 am
by koniu
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I can tell you from flying my bombers at 2000 feet that the threshold for non-ABs having reduced bombload is the "low naval" or "low ground" threshold, which is 1000.
100 = strafing. May also use LowG skill, have seen no evidence of it using LowN but someone would have to test.
1000 = low naval/low ground. Reduced bombload except for attack bombers.
2000+ = regular ground, regular naval. Regular bomb load.
+1
Have the same experience
Look at ground bombing i have last turn. 2000ft and full 4x250kg and 3x250kg bomb load
What i am experiencing is faster morale reduction and fatigue is building much faster.
And of course going against allied flak(outside china) is suicide
Aircraft Attacking:
21 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 2000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-67-Ia Peggy bombing from 2000 feet
Ground Attack: 3 x 250 kg GP Bomb
7 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 2000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:17 am
by HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I can tell you from flying my bombers at 2000 feet that the threshold for non-ABs having reduced bombload is the "low naval" or "low ground" threshold, which is 1000.
100 = strafing. May also use LowG skill, have seen no evidence of it using LowN but someone would have to test.
1000 = low naval/low ground. Reduced bombload except for attack bombers.
2000+ = regular ground, regular naval. Regular bomb load.
That corresponds with my experience with training. You can'tg get gains in LowNav or LowGrnd unless set at 1000 feet.
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:59 am
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I can tell you from flying my bombers at 2000 feet that the threshold for non-ABs having reduced bombload is the "low naval" or "low ground" threshold, which is 1000.
100 = strafing. May also use LowG skill, have seen no evidence of it using LowN but someone would have to test.
1000 = low naval/low ground. Reduced bombload except for attack bombers.
2000+ = regular ground, regular naval. Regular bomb load.
That corresponds with my experience with training. You can'tg get gains in LowNav or LowGrnd unless set at 1000 feet.
I've had gains in "on the job" training for Low Ground with fighters set to Ground Attack at 100 feet - they strafe, but they also drop bombs, and this apparently improves their LowG skill and not always their Strafe skill. I have noticed no such increase in Low Nav when attacking shipping, but the opportunities to do so are so far in between that it's hard to test during an actual game.