Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Josh

Okay, here we go [;)]

For starters a general question You write "Japan`s" instead of "Japan's". So uhm, that's an " ` " instead of an " ' " Same with IJN`s instead of IJN's.
Not sure if that's correct. I've noticed that you have used it in every writedown... so I'm not so sure if it's worth the trouble changing it all.


" The dates printed on the back of the counters
do not tie up in any meaningful way with build dates for the various classes of
Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) submarine class and therefore the counter date
should be ignored in most cases. "

Shouldn't this be: ... various classes of the Imperial Japanese Navy... ? ... not sure though, the sentence doesn't read fluidly.. if you know what I mean.

".P The size of World War II Japanese submarines gave rise to further problems
too. They were very slow to submerge and so were much easier to attack and kill
once found. Generally, the maximum depth they could operate at was significantly
shallower than their contempories."

Contemporaries... right?

" As such
they were faster and could dive further, although their basic armament was the
same."

..could dive... deeper?

So far so good, keep up your good work,

Josh

Warspite1

Pleased you are still around! [:)]

Well what do you know? I've been using the wrong button for the last two years!! I will amend going forward - although I cannot face going back into every write up for this [:(].

I have re-written the rubbish sentence re the counter dates - let me know if this reads better (see below)?

I think my spelling of Contemporaries is correct?

Agreed deeper is a better word in this context - amendment made.


.P These World In Flames counters represent a number of submarines rather than
any specific individual submarine. Note, the dates printed on the back of the WIF
counters do not necessarily tie up with actual build dates for the various
Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) submarine classes. As a result, these counter dates
should be ignored for the purposes of these write-ups.

Thanks for your feed-back as ever [:)]

This thread is emblematic of the misdirected labor that plagues this game. Are insanely overlong Wikipedia entries really necessary for every counter? The Bulgarian MIL unit? Seriously? If CWIF is the ultra-niche product that every Matrix apologist argues it to be, certainly everyone likely to purchase the game already has a raft of WWII reference books clogging their bookshelves, and additional writeups are unnecessary? I know I've got plenty of books and don't need duplicate, amateur-edited information stuffing up my computer.

So much hard work delivered to such little value.

I'm okay with the lengthy unit descriptions. Though trivial unit history knowledge would be secondary to me, than to have a plate drawings/rough inventory of the frontline troops/equipment. Is that just me?

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

This thread is emblematic of the misdirected labor that plagues this game. Are insanely overlong Wikipedia entries really necessary for every counter? The Bulgarian MIL unit? Seriously? If CWIF is the ultra-niche product that every Matrix apologist argues it to be, certainly everyone likely to purchase the game already has a raft of WWII reference books clogging their bookshelves, and additional writeups are unnecessary? I know I've got plenty of books and don't need duplicate, amateur-edited information stuffing up my computer.

So much hard work delivered to such little value.

Warspite1

Thank-you for your comments, and I respond as follows:

1. There is no mis-directed labour here. I am to computing what Hitler was to World Peace; hopeless. In taking on this task I am in no way being mis-directed from projects that will get the actual game completed quicker.

Furthermore, and as has been said numerous times, the completion or otherwise of these write-ups will in no way impact the bringing of MWIF to the market. If these are not finished and the game is ready - the game comes out; these will be completed in future patches.

2. A little disappointed that you called my work an "overlong Wikipedia entry" - I had hoped that it was obvious that this was not the case and that an awful lot of research has been done and effort expended to try and bring the ship counters to life. If I have failed I guess that is my problem, but I will keep plugging away to the best of my ability.

3. Is this amount of work necessary for every counter? Some people say yes, some say no and a third group I suspect, couldn`t care less. That is the beauty of these though; if you want to read them great, if not - ignore them.

4. I see you have a well stocked library of WWII reference material and that you do not need this additional information. I thought I had a decent reference library until I came to do these and realised what I don`t know. But that is by the by - the point is, if YOU don`t need these write-ups then ignore them.

Thank-you.

ORIGINAL: macgregor

I'm okay with the lengthy unit descriptions. Though trivial unit history knowledge would be secondary to me, than to have a plate drawings/rough inventory of the frontline troops/equipment. Is that just me?

Warspite1

No it is not just you. One of the problems with these write-ups - like with any work - is that different people want different things; some love the personal stories, some like big picture, high level stuff and others like the technical aspects. I guess you can`t please all the people all the time [;)]

@ Crusssdaddy

I don't know, it's the gamedesigner's decision, and speaking on personal terms here I do value a (lengthy) unit description. I *don't* have a raft of WWII books, and you *could* just google an unit if you would want to know more about it, but it is decided to put it (deservedly) in the game, so yeah I'm cool with that.
I don't know about the term "duplicate amateur-edited information", because in the end, almost *all* information is duplicated in one form or another. You would have to back to the source of it, the survivors of the event, the witnesses, the ones that were actually there, to get the best witness accounts of what actually happened... and even they can not be trusted solely as a source. So yeah there you go, yes it is duplicated (a habit you learn at the university [:D] ) and yes it is not 100% totally reliable information, then again... what intel is...?

What I do know is that these guys are doing 100% their utmost bestest ( [;)] ) to deliver a great game. Period.

Personally I don't care if it takes another couple of years to get finished. I've been waiting for Duke Nukem too for that long...and it looks like *that* one will need a few years as well. [:D]

"" Warspite1

Pleased you are still around!

Well what do you know? I've been using the wrong button for the last two years!! I will amend going forward - although I cannot face going back into every write up for this .

I have re-written the rubbish sentence re the counter dates - let me know if this reads better (see below)?

I think my spelling of Contemporaries is correct?

Agreed deeper is a better word in this context - amendment made.


.P These World In Flames counters represent a number of submarines rather than
any specific individual submarine. Note, the dates printed on the back of the WIF
counters do not necessarily tie up with actual build dates for the various
Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) submarine classes. As a result, these counter dates
should be ignored for the purposes of these write-ups.

Thanks for your feed-back as ever

""

Hohum, back to work...
Much obliged Warspite. [&o] The new sentence does read more fluid and makes more sense... IMHO.

Contemporaries.... but you write "contempories" in the write-up.... that one does not exist, well untill you discovered it that is [:D]

Hey I'm sorry I didn't mention the " ` "before, I did notice it before but wasn't so sure. Maybe it's possibe to replace all of the `with a ' with a Wordprogram? Don't know if that's possible or not, if not, I advise you to just leave it be. Maybe for some future update/patch, which will undoubtedly be released afterwards. Saves you the trouble, and a headache probably too.

ORIGINAL: Josh


Contemporaries.... but you write "contempories" in the write-up.... that one does not exist, well untill you discovered it that is [:D]

Warspite1

DOH!! [X(] - I will make the change [:)].

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

This thread is emblematic of the misdirected labor that plagues this game. Are insanely overlong Wikipedia entries really necessary for every counter? The Bulgarian MIL unit? Seriously? If CWIF is the ultra-niche product that every Matrix apologist argues it to be, certainly everyone likely to purchase the game already has a raft of WWII reference books clogging their bookshelves, and additional writeups are unnecessary? I know I've got plenty of books and don't need duplicate, amateur-edited information stuffing up my computer.

So much hard work delivered to such little value.

Warpite's reply about impact on game development is correct. The unit writeups consume maybe 5 minutes of my time a month - most of which is spent speed-reading through this thread.

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

This thread is emblematic of the misdirected labor that plagues this game. Are insanely overlong Wikipedia entries really necessary for every counter? The Bulgarian MIL unit? Seriously? If CWIF is the ultra-niche product that every Matrix apologist argues it to be, certainly everyone likely to purchase the game already has a raft of WWII reference books clogging their bookshelves, and additional writeups are unnecessary? I know I've got plenty of books and don't need duplicate, amateur-edited information stuffing up my computer.

So much hard work delivered to such little value.

If you really knew anything about the development process for this game you would not have posted this and proved it.

It has nothing to do with resource allocation - Steve has made it clear that he's the only clown in this circus, and even were programming help to be offered he would refuse it. It has to do with the fact that all of the activity on this project is completely superfluous to the presumed goal of bringing a computer version of WiF to life. WiF didn't have reams of unit background, and CWiF doesn't need it. And yet, here we have countless words, drawn from a million more worthy places, reformatted and regurgitated to no purpose. Why? It's a distraction that gives the appearance of progress, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

The last update was a real eye-opener: not only is Steve not making any headway, he is struggling to comprehend the very tools needed to do his job. I guess that's what happens when you begin a project in 2004 and are lapped by a half-dozen new software & hardware upgrades while on a six-year-and-counting road to nowhere.

But Steve is free to endlessly bumble and futz, and why? Because Matrix could absolutely care less. They have no investment at stake. But as long as those midget sub writeups keep coming, it keeps the fanboys happy. "We're making progress!"

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

It has nothing to do with resource allocation - Steve has made it clear that he's the only clown in this circus, and even were programming help to be offered he would refuse it. It has to do with the fact that all of the activity on this project is completely superfluous to the presumed goal of bringing a computer version of WiF to life. WiF didn't have reams of unit background, and CWiF doesn't need it. And yet, here we have countless words, drawn from a million more worthy places, reformatted and regurgitated to no purpose. Why? It's a distraction that gives the appearance of progress, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

The last update was a real eye-opener: not only is Steve not making any headway, he is struggling to comprehend the very tools needed to do his job. I guess that's what happens when you begin a project in 2004 and are lapped by a half-dozen new software & hardware upgrades while on a six-year-and-counting road to nowhere.

But Steve is free to endlessly bumble and futz, and why? Because Matrix could absolutely care less. They have no investment at stake. But as long as those midget sub writeups keep coming, it keeps the fanboys happy. "We're making progress!"

Warspite1

So now you shift the argument because previous answers do not suit; you step over lines such that your disgusting comments get removed from threads and you begin name calling once more.

1. If activity is, in your opinion, superfluous, but it does not impact on resource allocation, then why does it bother you so much? I'll tell you what new unit write-ups give the impression of - that new unit write-ups are being completed, that's what - they are not a substitute for progress on the game. No one with any sense would think otherwise.

2. WIF did not have reams of unit background - so MWIF should not have it.....so there can be no concept of improving on an existing product? A decision was taken some time ago to include these write-ups - it was generally thought to be a good idea - what makes your opinion soooooo special?

3. Fanboys? Please - GROW UP.

Apparently a while ago you had an e-mail exchange with Harry Rowland that seemed to pacify you somewhat - what has changed? Or have you come here today just looking for an argument from, what was it?, "silly old codgers"?

Please, if you really are so disillusioned with what is going on here, then just walk away. Find a different game to focus on. Note: the word GAME - this is not life and death. Or better still, if you truly believe what you say, continue to lobby ADG for quicker action and see where that gets you.

As has been pointed out before, if Matrix do not continue with this project, who is going to pick up the pieces? You seem to think you have an answer to that and there are loads of companies out there just itching to get involved ..so enlighten us.

Because Matrix could absolutely care less.

Anybody know why Americans say "could care less" when the expression should be "couldn't care less"?

Cheers, Neilster

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Because Matrix could absolutely care less.

Anybody know why Americans say "could care less" when the expression should be "couldn't care less"?

Cheers, Neilster

Because many of us American (me included) are just too lazy with the English language, it is the same with me speaking or writting. I tend to be better dealing with numbers and/or equations than with the "word"...

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Because Matrix could absolutely care less.

Anybody know why Americans say "could care less" when the expression should be "couldn't care less"?

Cheers, Neilster

Because many of us American (me included) are just too lazy with the English language, it is the same with me speaking or writting. I tend to be better dealing with numbers and/or equations than with the "word"...

OK...well good luck with the "writting" [:D][:'(]

Cheers, Neilster

Lord knows I should always use a spell checker when writing, but ahh...too lazy again...[:)][:)][:)]

Personally I find Warspite's work immensely interesting. Each entry represents a different way to look at the war - a perspective from the small mans view. I greatly appreciate the UNPAID work he and the others are doing.

One of the reasons WiF has stands out to me is the personality of the units. The air forces and navies really do reflect the actual ones (or at least conceivable ones) and aren't just generic units with 5 tech levels of upgrades or 3rd Reich 9 factor fleets.

And as for the "are we there yet?" crowd, we'll get there when we get there. In the mean time have a donut and watch the beautiful scenery.

ORIGINAL: ItBurns

Personally I find Warspite's work immensely interesting. Each entry represents a different way to look at the war - a perspective from the small mans view. I greatly appreciate the UNPAID work he and the others are doing.

One of the reasons WiF has stands out to me is the personality of the units. The air forces and navies really do reflect the actual ones (or at least conceivable ones) and aren't just generic units with 5 tech levels of upgrades or 3rd Reich 9 factor fleets.

And as for the "are we there yet?" crowd, we'll get there when we get there. In the mean time have a donut and watch the beautiful scenery.

Warspite1

Many thanks for your support ItBurns [:)].

can't we go back to arguing about which version of the English language means which way the battle was lost?

ORIGINAL: brian brian

can't we go back to arguing about which version of the English language means which way the battle was lost?

Warspite1

??