Matrix Games Forums

Bah,

Stupid forum ate the post and I forgot to take a copy It was a short report of the last two days. Not much happening besides putting Soerabaja to the torch! Almost 150.000 fires started. Best I have gotten in the game even when doing daylight runs! [:)]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Those Level 9 AFs can host, umm, about 5000 kamis. Don't eat the deer until you shoot the deer.

If you want to do Formosa go for it. I'll try to wait until late to say I told you so. [:)]

I am assuming you are advocating attacking the home islands from extended B-29 range, and thus avoiding the pain of Kami attacks from built up bases within the home islands ring. The Bonnin Islands do not have a single AF of (4) that can be built to at least 7. I am not sure of the home rules in this game. If nighttime strategic bombing is allowed such a strategy would have merit. [Sweep fighters during the day bomb all night] However, if B-29's have to fight there way in during the day-- then unlike real life, the operational resources are going to require lot of air platforms to penetrate and maintain pressure.

You had a rant in my AAR that the Pacific theater is nothing like the European theater, however, I might comment that in this game, unlike real life, the IJ can amass thousands of fighters on the home islands, and with enough home rules it forces the environment to one of constant attrition. [With exceptions -- The IJ do not tend to run out of stuff like real life]. Given the historical Allied OOB, I might propose that one has to think out of the box to achieve victory. To make matters more complicated, the IJ very well might have ahistorical platforms very soon further providing an advantage in this strategic contest. Thus the historical Marianas B-29/ Bonnis P-51 strategy might not apply to this game. To me it would depend if the IJ left Formosa open to attack.. if so then weigh the risk ...

This game is no simulation ... thus I propose ones strategy has to be a combination of balancing the game algorithms, home rules, and what the other player gives you ....

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Bah,

Stupid forum ate the post and I forgot to take a copy It was a short report of the last two days. Not much happening besides putting Soerabaja to the torch! Almost 150.000 fires started. Best I have gotten in the game even when doing daylight runs! [:)]

It would be interesting how much collateral damage is incurred .. could you document that as days go by?

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Bah,

Stupid forum ate the post and I forgot to take a copy It was a short report of the last two days. Not much happening besides putting Soerabaja to the torch! Almost 150.000 fires started. Best I have gotten in the game even when doing daylight runs! [:)]

It would be interesting how much collateral damage is incurred .. could you document that as days go by?

Sure, I´ll check out and post damage after each strike. [:)] I´ll try to sort it out tonight. Been really busy this weekend and we only managed a single turn!

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Those Level 9 AFs can host, umm, about 5000 kamis. Don't eat the deer until you shoot the deer.

If you want to do Formosa go for it. I'll try to wait until late to say I told you so. [:)]

I am assuming you are advocating attacking the home islands from extended B-29 range, and thus avoiding the pain of Kami attacks from built up bases within the home islands ring. The Bonnin Islands do not have a single AF of (4) that can be built to at least 7. I am not sure of the home rules in this game. If nighttime strategic bombing is allowed such a strategy would have merit. [Sweep fighters during the day bomb all night] However, if B-29's have to fight there way in during the day-- then unlike real life, the operational resources are going to require lot of air platforms to penetrate and maintain pressure.

You had a rant in my AAR that the Pacific theater is nothing like the European theater, however, I might comment that in this game, unlike real life, the IJ can amass thousands of fighters on the home islands, and with enough home rules it forces the environment to one of constant attrition. [With exceptions -- The IJ do not tend to run out of stuff like real life]. Given the historical Allied OOB, I might propose that one has to think out of the box to achieve victory. To make matters more complicated, the IJ very well might have ahistorical platforms very soon further providing an advantage in this strategic contest. Thus the historical Marianas B-29/ Bonnis P-51 strategy might not apply to this game. To me it would depend if the IJ left Formosa open to attack.. if so then weigh the risk ...

This game is no simulation ... thus I propose ones strategy has to be a combination of balancing the game algorithms, home rules, and what the other player gives you ....

Me? Rant? Impossible!! [:)]

Couple of things:

1) Attacking the HI is fine, but it's early to be talking about this. The issue is Formosa or no Formosa.

2) I've invaded and taken Formosa against the AI. It was very painful. Look at the Chinese coast, not to mention Hong Kong AF-wise. Both Betty bases and easy kami ranges to Formosa. By a wide variety of air frames, not just 2Es.

3) Formosa is very hilly. The marching is slow between bases. Multiple landings to save time expose many more landing ships to kamis. Entering at one and then expending hundreds of xAKs to ship in only supply is cheaper on amphibious lift, but very much slower. Prep periods also are a limiting factor and the bases will have Forts 7 or higher and bad terrain for the attacker. To avoid an LCU bloodbath on LCUs needed for Okinawa and/or the HI prep needs to be high for a lot of Formosa bases.

4) Formosa can be hit by naval forces and subs from Shanghai, Korea, or the western HI at fairly cheap fuel expenditure. Big bases/yards are close for retreat. The Allies have no such bases close by. I would suggest forgetting Formosa at least until Luzon is secure and Manila held and fully stocked with supplies and fuel (Balikpapan/Tarakan?)

5) It seems Jocke's and your presumption re Formosa is largely predicated on the B-29. Jocke in particular is in love with this model. In my experience strat bombing the HI to rubble the workhorses are B-17s and B-24s in their thousands. The B-29s are useful for night Manpower demonstrations, but the daily shuttle and attrition is by the older models. In that role I always advocate the northern route, not Formosa. In that light you are correct that the Bonins are not optimal for basing large 4E formations. But they can be sweep bases and really complicate the Japanese air defense problem. So can limited B-29 strikes from the Marianas; they prevent uber-stacking the north with all the fighters.

For the main work I'd look north at Sakhalin Island, not at Formosa and not at China. Particularly after VE day when the massive influx of B-17 "silver" models plus B-24s arrive, taking out Hokaiddo industry and then taking the island itself provides a much easier "peel the onion" to strat bombing than sitting on Formosa at great expense and range, and hoping the B-29 attrition makes it worth it.

As an aside, rather than tackle Formosa with all its warts, I might take a hard, hard look at a direct thrust on Hong Kong. It's an HI and supply powerhouse for Japan, has a nice repair yard, and opens Canton to siege and taking. A thrust north pours supply into the heart of China, making all those huge Chinese infantry corps really fearsome bleeders for IJA arms and vehicle point budgets. And HK can base a lot of LBA which can close the SE Chinese coast AFs and make Formosa, if it must be taken, a lot cheaper kami-wise.

As an aside, rather than tackle Formosa with all its warts, I might take a hard, hard look at a direct thrust on Hong Kong.

One piece of information we do not know .. has the IJ depleted Formosa defenses? That question has not been answered yet. At least the AI I have played with has no scripts to deviate forces elsewhere like Burma ... A look at the WitP Tracker Intel screen could determine of forces have been depleted.

As far as forts go ... supply is key as everybody on this forum knows ... I am not sure of the LI on this island as far as supplying long term war of attrition if the Island were isolated.

Taihoku is key in my book.. I might say that the Kaelung Fortress in any new Beta if supplied is virtually impossible to take by sea. The flak is enormous .... My map shows Taihoku, Taichu, Kagi, Takao as clear terrain with an improved road .. how does the hills get involved here besides Karenko (Mtn), and Hengchun (woods/rough)? No road connects Hengchun to the Island .. are you pointing out that an invasion of Hengchun has to slug its way through Woods/Rough Terrain and no road? [That makes sense ... but to say the whole island is "hilly" confuses me ..

Also, home rules can affect this decision greatly for example night attacks on airfields....

One problem with Hong Kong so well described by one of our more astute community members ..."The Empire Kool-Aid drinkers simply get on trains ..." [;)] Very hard to reinforce Formosa once the operations commence ...

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

As an aside, rather than tackle Formosa with all its warts, I might take a hard, hard look at a direct thrust on Hong Kong.

One piece of information we do not know .. has the IJ depleted Formosa defenses? That question has not been answered yet. At least the AI I have played with has no scripts to deviate forces elsewhere like Burma ... A look at the WitP Tracker Intel screen could determine of forces have been depleted.

As far as forts go ... supply is key as everybody on this forum knows ... I am not sure of the LI on this island as far as supplying long term war of attrition if the Island were isolated.

Taihoku is key in my book.. I might say that the Kaelung Fortress in any new Beta if supplied is virtually impossible to take by sea. The flak is enormous .... My map shows Taihoku, Taichu, Kagi, Takao as clear terrain with an improved road .. how does the hills get involved here besides Karenko (Mtn), and Hengchun (woods/rough)? No road connects Hengchun to the Island .. are you pointing out that an invasion of Hengchun has to slug its way through Woods/Rough Terrain and no road? [That makes sense ... but to say the whole island is "hilly" confuses me ..

Also, home rules can affect this decision greatly for example night attacks on airfields....

One problem with Hong Kong so well described by one of our more astute community members ..."The Empire Kool-Aid drinkers simply get on trains ..." [;)] Very hard to reinforce Formosa once the operations commence ...

I went in at Takao with an objective of taking the whole island. The hills were a factor in the second half, yes.

The AI is the AI. The defenses were formidable. If Obvert has hollowed the island out then it's easier, sure. But Jocke has not faced kamis yet. Given how emotional he can get at airplane losses in the DEI I'm afraid he might expire the first time he gets 600 coming at his landing force.

I'm not sure what your comment re HK means.

Edit: And you didn't address my point about Formosa being valuable mainly for B-29 ops.

I'm not sure what your comment re HK means.

Edit: And you didn't address my point about Formosa being valuable mainly for B-29 ops.

Hong Kong is connected to China and railways that run to Canton .. a pretty good road network to Kukong and beyond .. so the IJA might focus a heck of lot more forces very quickly to a Hong Kong Invasion ...than to put boys on ships and counter-invade ..

Yes, Regular B29 range and extended B-24/17 range to Kyushu Island .. The Level 9 base seems to offer a bonus for group cohesion .. in my limited experience almost a multiplier in some respects .. [having multiple groups arrive as one attack adds a multiplier to target damage over those same groups arriving dispersed in multiple attacks ..]

So Multiple B-29's/B24's starting from a level 9 base attacking within normal range adds a strategic advantage. Given the worth of smacking strategic targets in this game ... this can be maximized in this game and Taihoku is key in my book

To go on record .. I look at this game a little different than those that believe this is an historical simulation. So for example, I look at my experiences lately with strategic bombing and I say wow! This game really emphasizes highly coordinated attacks and level 9 bases seem to me at this point really factor into this equation. One really close level 9 base is Taihoku .. a whole bunch of B29's and B24's from Taihoku could torch Kyushu...[;)] I calculate well worth the VP's 600 Kammi's are going to sink ... especially if I put out a screen of ships for the Kami's to sacrifice themselves until I can get air superiority ...

Ok 'nuff of me ... In my game I might not make it to the end of 1942! [8D]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I'm not sure what your comment re HK means.

Edit: And you didn't address my point about Formosa being valuable mainly for B-29 ops.

Hong Kong is connected to China and railways that run to Canton .. a pretty good road network to Kukong and beyond .. so the IJA might focus a heck of lot more forces very quickly to a Hong Kong Invasion ...than to put boys on ships and counter-invade ..

Yes, Regular B29 range and extended B-24/17 range to Kyushu Island .. The Level 9 base seems to offer a bonus for group cohesion .. in my limited experience almost a multiplier in some respects .. [having multiple groups arrive as one attack adds a multiplier to target damage over those same groups arriving dispersed in multiple attacks ..]

So Multiple B-29's/B24's starting from a level 9 base attacking within normal range adds a strategic advantage. Given the worth of smacking strategic targets in this game ... this can be maximized in this game and Taihoku is key in my book

To go on record .. I look at this game a little different than those that believe this is an historical simulation. So for example, I look at my experiences lately with strategic bombing and I say wow! This game really emphasizes highly coordinated attacks and level 9 bases seem to me at this point really factor into this equation. One really close level 9 base is Taihoku .. a whole bunch of B29's and B24's from Taihoku could torch Kyushu...[;)] I calculate well worth the VP's 600 Kammi's are going to sink ... especially if I put out a screen of ships for the Kami's to sacrifice themselves until I can get air superiority ...

Ok 'nuff of me ... In my game I might not make it to the end of 1942! [8D]

If you go at HK with the forces you'll need to take Formosa--tanks and arty especially--I doubt Japan can strat move enough in to stop the Allies. Three days to load, three days to unload under fire. Assuming the Allied horde comes from Luzon the Allies should have HK invested before much can get there. Plus it's far better stuff. And if Japan denudes central China to rescue HK, the Chinese have work to do in the rear.

Formosa is normal range to some of the HI for non-B-29s. Some good VP sources too. But not everywhere. I'm not saying it's not an excellent AF once it's taken. It's the taking I'm talking about. I've used the northern route; I've never gotten much out of Formosa before the game was over. I guess experiences differ. Sakhalin has big AFs, and Hokaiddo does too.

I'm just saying that Formosa is a lot easier if Japan is pushed off the Chinese coastal air fields first.

Hey guys! [:)]

I see the reasoning with doing mainland China. Its just a small problem with that. Since China has been lost for the allies in late 42 there is nothing holding the Japanese back there. If I land at HK Erik will probably rail every unit left in China to HK or neighbouring city. So any landing at HK would have to be with almost everything I have to prevent getting the troops annihilated in a counter attack. This pretty much rules out any landing on the Chinese coast unless I devote everything to it. Also should mention that everything of value in HK has already been destroyed in B29 raids from Burma.

I´m not seeing Formosa as the "end of the line". Its just a stepping stone to something else. But it will allow me to the earliest possible moment to start a sustainable strategic campaign against the HI. From what I can tell so far I simply cannot sustain losses in B29 frames when doing missions on extended range. When operating on close to max range I usually lose 10-15 B29 to OPS alone while often not inflicting any damage at all. The plane fatigue from flying extended range also means I can do about 2-3 attack per month instead of every 3-5 days. From what I can see its not meaningful to fly from extended range. Thats why I intend to grab Balikpapan for instance. Just to get within normal range of Palembang.

Of course Luzon in Allied hands is a must for an operation against Formosa. But the way I see it its either Formose or Okinawa. And Okinawa doesn´t change anything. Sure I can sweep the HI but the AFs are too small to handle 4Es in a meaningful way. So while able to sweep I would still be stuck flying B29s on extended range from Luzon and B24s not at all.

Doing something on Sakhalin would offer the same thing. But that would force me to shift my entire axis of advance. Just shifting all the troops would be a massive undertaking and it would take months getting everything in order. Just securing the Kuriles would be a 4-6 month endeavor. So I feel that is not an option at this stage.

I still have some time to decide but I think Formosa is the logical choice for me! While I see it can be a daunting task I think its doable. With airfields on Luzon I can close the bases on Formosa and mainland China. Erik likes to superstack everything including planes. So rather then building up several smaller AFs he builds just one or two big ones which I can easily close. Stupid or not. I´m confident I can take on Formosa if I decide to go that route! [:)]

[font="Verdana"]19th-22nd October 1944[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

Two quiet days followed by a small Japanese offensive in the air.

------------------------
DEI
------------------------
B29s go in during the night and start 150k fires at Soerabaja. Fires are still burning so damage report will have to wait for a while.

Erik has a lot of SCTFs in the area so I had to pull my transports back a bit. I have a plan to deal with his ships shortly. Stay tuned on that... [:)]

I hit CL Kiso with a lone torp sending it to the yard hopefully!

------------------------
Mindanao
------------------------
Erik finally responds to the allied shipping unleashing some 200 naval bombers going after the ships at Guinian and Dumaguete. Possible some of them were Kamis but not much penetrated. Here are the biggest raids.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Guiuan at 82,85

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 105 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 21
D4Y4 Judy x 25
J2M3 Jack x 17
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 16

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 9 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 6 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 10 destroyed by flak
J2M3 Jack: 8 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Birmingham
DD Hale
DD McNair
CL Miami
DD Daly
DD Frazier
DD Ammen

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
15 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

This was the only raid that did some damage.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Guiuan at 82,85

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y4 Judy x 37
J2M3 Jack x 17

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 12 destroyed, 9 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak
J2M3 Jack: 6 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AKA Andromeda, Bomb hits 1
AKA Athene, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD O'Brien
APA Bolivar
DE Thomason
APA Barnstable
APA Cavalier, Bomb hits 1, on fire
LSI(L) Empire Star, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Poor AKA Athene is hit for the second time in the war. She will be fine though but will require yard time obviously.

Here is what could possible be the first Japanese Kami attack of the war.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Dumaguete at 78,86

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 1,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 9

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 5 destroyed

Not very happy with the altitude setting here. I might have to discuss it with Erik. The engine simply cannot handle low altitudes like this. The detection times simply get too low and 9 out of 10 times CAP doesn´t have time to react regardless of patrol altitude. We had some problems with this in 43 and Erik stopped doing it.

During the day some 135 Japanese planes are shot down for 14 Allied. Good day! [&o]

The allies also invaded the small Island of Tawi Tawi. Erik has equal forces there but the 4Es will help out in a turn or two.

------------------------
Movement Bug
------------------------
Well, basically most of my units heading for Davao warped to Cayguyan instead. Erik graciously offered to put his units in reserve mode to offset the loss of allied troops at Davao. Very generous and gentlemanlike! [&o]

------------------------
Tavoy
------------------------
I´m almost ready to move out here. Need to add a few more bits and pieces. Mergui finally succumed! [&o]

Ground combat at Mergui (53,62)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 5737 troops, 18 guns, 485 vehicles, Assault Value = 369

Defending force 5911 troops, 85 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 84

Allied adjusted assault: 288

Japanese adjusted defense: 27

Allied assault odds: 10 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Mergui !!! [&o][&o][&o]

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2496 casualties reported
Squads: 77 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 92 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 37 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 16 (15 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 5

Allied ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

------------------------
Marianas
------------------------
More bombardments as the troops rest. Another deliberate attack ordered tomorrow at both Saipan and Guam. Saipan might actually fall tomorrow. Fingers crossed! [:)]

------------------------
CENTPAC
------------------------
Most TFs reach PH from the Marianas. The will continue to WC to pick up fuel and supply. Then begins the arduous task of getting the transport system set up. Ugh.


Erik and I havn´t been doing many turns lately. Our schedules are completely off. If usually have an opportunity around this time (08:00-09:00) in the morning when Ida sleeps but Erik isn´t able to do the turn until after that. Which means we only get one turn done per day in the evenings. I´m not sure we will have time to finish the game in time. I have a until April next year to get this done and then I will have to drop the game and AAR. So I really hope we can find a rhythm again to do at least 2 per day until I get back to work in January.

Anyway.

Here is a screen of the situation around Mindanao. I´m sorry if things sound confusing with all the base names and stuff. Let me know if you need more maps and I´ll try to provide it! [:)]

The Oscars at 1k are probably kamis. Don't kamikaze attacks use the Low Nav skill? That would help to explain a 1k altitude.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The Oscars at 1k are probably kamis. Don't kamikaze attacks use the Low Nav skill? That would help to explain a 1k altitude.

Not sure about that. I think they where set at 1000ft by Erik.
You can set Kami at any attitude. They will travel to target at that altitude and a2a interception will start also at that altitude but during combat kamikaze will try to go low and always attack at low attitude.

Similar to Torpedo bomber attack when bomber can start mision at any attitude and will always end attacking at 100ft

I hope koniu is right because otherwise its just going to be a free ride for Erik. We had this problem in 43 when he set a lot of attacks at 1000 ft. No matter what altitude my CAP was set at there was simply no time to react to the incoming planes. Even when they were set to 1000-5000 the engine was pretty much unable to get to the strike.

This was reported in another AAR as well. Erik stopped using 1000ft after that. He might simply have made a mistake here. I´ll wait and see if it happens more.

In many AARs that have kamikaze activated I read that kamikaze attack where most effective when kamikaze attack was layered. So some kamikaze at 100, 1000, 5000, 13000, etc.

When high flying kamikaze arrive over target first even properly layered CAP climb toward enemy creating hole to low flying kamikaze. On other side when low kamikaze arrive first CAP dive making hole in high so when high flying kamikaze arrive CAP have no time to climb and when kamikaze start diving toward enemy ships it is very difficult to intercept especially when You use fast planes like D4Y(350mph) or my favorite Ki-84 Frank(399mph). Also Ki-115(Toka) will be dangerous with his ~370mph and 800kg bomb

EDIT
I think You will be ok. Beta has fixed kamikaze. Now they are on more affective that they where in RL. In my test game i send 6 CV TF toward Tokyo. They where facing 2000 planes attack (1/3 where kamikaze)(spreed in dozen waves) and i manage to damage only few ships but none of them was in sinking condition.

Beta have spoil entire fun from Kamikaze to Japanese players[:(]

Interesting developments!

I´ll try to get a full report up tonight. Here is the short recap:

KB popped up in NOPAC! [X(] I lost 7 Fletchers, 2 AKAs and 2 APAs. No troops luckily!

While this is a small tactical win for the IJ and I´m obviously not happy losing the DDs I think this is a big strategic blunder. Again Erik is playing his main strategic asset as a tactical one sending it off to a backwater I have almost no interest in! NOPAC. What was he thinking here? I have shown no interest here for years and have only 3-4 RGTs here backed up by 6 AKA/APAs and 10 Fletchers. Thats it. Nothing that would warrant the KBs attention. This is actually playing into my hands! [:)]

This is a great opportunity for me and I hope to turn this tactical defeat into a strategic win. [&o] First troops already started loading. Two other major operations will launch within 3-4 days. Stay tuned!

ORIGINAL: koniu


EDIT
I think You will be ok. Beta has fixed kamikaze. Now they are on more affective that they where in RL. In my test game i send 6 CV TF toward Tokyo. They where facing 2000 planes attack (1/3 where kamikaze)(spreed in dozen waves) and i manage to damage only few ships but none of them was in sinking condition.

Beta have spoil entire fun from Kamikaze to Japanese players[:(]

That matches my experience with the BETA. Its enough even with a very small CAP to stop almost any number of LBA attacks.

I´m not seeing Formosa as the "end of the line". Its just a stepping stone to something else. But it will allow me to the earliest possible moment to start a sustainable strategic campaign against the HI

Do you plan to go beyond the Allied Auto-Victory of 2:1 in January 1945? I say this because I suspect Formosa and torching Kyushu is going to put you close to AV ....

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I´m not seeing Formosa as the "end of the line". Its just a stepping stone to something else. But it will allow me to the earliest possible moment to start a sustainable strategic campaign against the HI

Do you plan to go beyond the Allied Auto-Victory of 2:1 in January 1945? I say this because I suspect Formosa and torching Kyushu is going to put you close to AV ....

I doubt I´ll get a 2:1 anytime soon since I still only hold a 1:1 [:)]

We arn´t playing for VPs and I rarely look at them beyond trying to confirm sinkings so we will continue to play as long as both want to. [:)]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I´m not seeing Formosa as the "end of the line". Its just a stepping stone to something else. But it will allow me to the earliest possible moment to start a sustainable strategic campaign against the HI

Do you plan to go beyond the Allied Auto-Victory of 2:1 in January 1945? I say this because I suspect Formosa and torching Kyushu is going to put you close to AV ....

I doubt I´ll get a 2:1 anytime soon since I still only hold a 1:1 [:)]

We arn´t playing for VPs and I rarely look at them beyond trying to confirm sinkings so we will continue to play as long as both want to. [:)]

Ok then the home islands invasion comes into play ....

Just for the AAR audience .. As far as VP's go .. 2 things come into play in my opinion. One is the numerator .. the other is the denominator . the denominator is far more important in this game if the players are considering Auto Victory. The IJ lose not just the face value points but in fact twice as many points mathematically speaking to gaining VP's.. [If 1945 victory is 2:1 either twice as many points have to be gained or 1/2 as many lost by the IJ]

Places like Manila have an incentive to capture because the IJ lose a factor of (50) (remember multiplied by port and airfield factors) and the Allies gain a multiplicative factor of (100)* (AF & port factoring) so the Allies not only gain 100 * (af & port factors) but reduce the denominator by (50) * (af & port factors) so a more dramatic VP ratio change ... a factor to think about if playing for VP's .. Singapore is another place where the Denominator is greatly affected.