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RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:01 am
by kevinkins
Recent discussion on Growlers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pYoivVByMc
Notes:
Electromagnetic maneuver warfare!?! = disruption of the enemy's kill chain. Talks about the degrading effect of cyber warfare. Spectrum dependencies. Managing a friendly e-signature. Not a needle out of a haystack but a needle out of a pile of needles (what an analogy). Range is relative. Establish areas of sanctuary (sea base). Penny packets. Bases where there is no DOD infrastructure. Austere operations. Asia and in Europe. Expeditionary exercises. 160 Growlers on order. 122/160 built.
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:36 am
by Dysta
http://www.dawn.com/news/1307384/pakist ... se-missile (w/ video)
http://thediplomat.com/2017/01/pakistan ... -what-now/
http://quwa.org/2017/01/09/pakistan-tes ... e-missile/
Most medias presumed Agosta 90B can launch Babur cruise missile, and the 3 is the SLCM version. It has less range than land-based version, only 215nm-240mn (400-450km). What caught most attentions than range, is the nuclear capability, which is optionally included.
The missile emerge angle from video is diagonal, believed it's tube-launched rather than rumored VLS.
Pakistan tests Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile
Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) has announced the successful test-firing of a Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) on Tuesday, 09 January 2017.
As per ISPR, the test was conducted from “an underwater, mobile platform.”
The Babur-3 SLCM possesses a range of 450 km and relies on an “underwater controlled propulsion” system. The Babur-3 utilizes an “advanced” guidance suite comprising of “Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems.”
ISPR states that the Babur-3 is the SLCM variant of the Babur-2, a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) that was tested on Wednesday, 14 December 2016. Like the Babur-2, the Babur-3 is capable of “terrain hugging and sea-skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defences.”
ISPR has heralded the Babur-3 for imbuing Pakistan with “a credible second-strike capability” as well as “augmenting” Pakistan’s deterrence posture.
Notes & Comments:
The introduction of a SLCM was one of Pakistan’s expected deterrence efforts, though its introduction prior to the delivery of the Hangor-class air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines (SSP) was surprising. It had been assumed that the submarines were procured from China because it would have been the simplest method to introduce a sea-based deterrence system, but it now appears that Pakistan sought the capability in accordance with its existing assets, such as the Khalid-class (i.e. Agosta 90B) SSP.
It is not clear at this stage if this specific Babur-3 test was conducted from a submarine or another platform, such as a submerged pontoon.
The Babur-3 does possess a lower range than the Babur-2 (450 km vs. 700 km). The cause for the lower range can only be speculated upon. It is possible that compatibility with the Agosta 90B’s torpedo tubes required the Babur’s length to be reduced, and in turn, necessitated a smaller powerplant.
If this is an accurate understanding of the issue, then it is effectively tied to the design characteristics of Pakistan’s present submarines. It is possible that the Hangor-class SSPs will possess longer torpedo tubes, thus enabling the deployment of the 700 km Babur-2. However, there is no verified insight into the reason. Nonetheless, challenges of this nature could push Pakistan to further its research and development efforts in miniature air-breathing propulsion (for range extension).
The Babur-3 retains the TERCOM and DSMAC-based guidance suite of the Babur-2 and Babur, but ISPR noted that it also benefits from “global navigation” – suggesting that a satellite-navigation system is also in place. It is possible (in light of a likely wartime blackout of GPS) that this is made possible with BeiDou.
ISPR also noted that Babur-3 has a “land-attack mode”, suggesting that an alternate – i.e. anti-shipping – mode is also possible. The core Babur platform, especially in the Babur-2, was positioned as an anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM). However, enabling this capability would require a terminal active-homing seeker, be it active radar-homing or imaging infrared. It is also plausible that the revised 2×3 launcher onboard the fourth Azmat-class FAC is for the Babur-3.
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:28 am
by Dysta
Reinforced hangers might protect planes from falling bombs, but not much from missiles:
https://youtu.be/5RA507LDay0
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:33 am
by kevinkins
Like the video on Growlers, but this one on aerial ASW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnh_UDu9hiU
Both are post '16 election. So very recent.
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:07 am
by Dysta
ORIGINAL: Dysta
A new Chinese ELINT ship is commissioned. Several antennas are different from older ships.
The actual in naval service date is 10 Jan 2017
http://news.china.com/domestic/945/2017 ... 64389.html (Simplified Chinese)
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:33 am
by mikmykWS
Yeah is a big loss to something that could be deterred by blocking line of sight. Those albatross's seem to be night capable and very active!
https://warisboring.com/al-assads-night ... .5cfeszvup
Every Assad loss is a win for the world though!
Mike
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:36 am
by mikmykWS
ORIGINAL: Dysta
http://www.dawn.com/news/1307384/pakist ... se-missile (w/ video)
http://thediplomat.com/2017/01/pakistan ... -what-now/
http://quwa.org/2017/01/09/pakistan-tes ... e-missile/
Most medias presumed Agosta 90B can launch Babur cruise missile, and the 3 is the SLCM version. It has less range than land-based version, only 215nm-240mn (400-450km). What caught most attentions than range, is the nuclear capability, which is optionally included.
The missile emerge angle from video is diagonal, believed it's tube-launched rather than rumored VLS.
Pakistan tests Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile
Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) has announced the successful test-firing of a Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) on Tuesday, 09 January 2017.
As per ISPR, the test was conducted from “an underwater, mobile platform.”
The Babur-3 SLCM possesses a range of 450 km and relies on an “underwater controlled propulsion” system. The Babur-3 utilizes an “advanced” guidance suite comprising of “Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems.”
ISPR states that the Babur-3 is the SLCM variant of the Babur-2, a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) that was tested on Wednesday, 14 December 2016. Like the Babur-2, the Babur-3 is capable of “terrain hugging and sea-skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defences.”
ISPR has heralded the Babur-3 for imbuing Pakistan with “a credible second-strike capability” as well as “augmenting” Pakistan’s deterrence posture.
Notes & Comments:
The introduction of a SLCM was one of Pakistan’s expected deterrence efforts, though its introduction prior to the delivery of the Hangor-class air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines (SSP) was surprising. It had been assumed that the submarines were procured from China because it would have been the simplest method to introduce a sea-based deterrence system, but it now appears that Pakistan sought the capability in accordance with its existing assets, such as the Khalid-class (i.e. Agosta 90B) SSP.
It is not clear at this stage if this specific Babur-3 test was conducted from a submarine or another platform, such as a submerged pontoon.
The Babur-3 does possess a lower range than the Babur-2 (450 km vs. 700 km). The cause for the lower range can only be speculated upon. It is possible that compatibility with the Agosta 90B’s torpedo tubes required the Babur’s length to be reduced, and in turn, necessitated a smaller powerplant.
If this is an accurate understanding of the issue, then it is effectively tied to the design characteristics of Pakistan’s present submarines. It is possible that the Hangor-class SSPs will possess longer torpedo tubes, thus enabling the deployment of the 700 km Babur-2. However, there is no verified insight into the reason. Nonetheless, challenges of this nature could push Pakistan to further its research and development efforts in miniature air-breathing propulsion (for range extension).
The Babur-3 retains the TERCOM and DSMAC-based guidance suite of the Babur-2 and Babur, but ISPR noted that it also benefits from “global navigation” – suggesting that a satellite-navigation system is also in place. It is possible (in light of a likely wartime blackout of GPS) that this is made possible with BeiDou.
ISPR also noted that Babur-3 has a “land-attack mode”, suggesting that an alternate – i.e. anti-shipping – mode is also possible. The core Babur platform, especially in the Babur-2, was positioned as an anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM). However, enabling this capability would require a terminal active-homing seeker, be it active radar-homing or imaging infrared. It is also plausible that the revised 2×3 launcher onboard the fourth Azmat-class FAC is for the Babur-3.
Added this to our db do list.
Mike
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:50 am
by kevinkins
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:58 am
by kevinkins
https://www.yahoo.com/news/pentagon-suc ... 18993.html
As if our Command tactical displays are not crowded enough! I understand the swarm concept in also being readied for ground combat. Small infantry units will be expected to set up local "air defenses" against insect sized adversaries.
Kevin
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:22 pm
by orca
Article on Sea Hunter ACTUV...
Navy Sub-Hunting Drone Ship to Launch Offensive Attacks
http://www.scout.com/military/warrior/s ... ch-attacks
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:34 am
by redcoat
The latest news about the aircraft to be carried by HMS Queen Elizabeth:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/yes-the-new-carriers-will-have-aircraft/

RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:37 pm
by Hongjian
Xianglong (Soaring Dragon II) UAV reportedly in serial production since 2015 & also in formal deployment to operational units
This photo is clearly PSed, but the UAV itself appears to be real. Someone has painstakingly cut out the UAV from its original photo and put it on a fake background - usual Chinese military enthusiast's self-censorship practice.
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:07 pm
by kevinkins
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:06 pm
by Hongjian
Heh, so the rumors of the bigger hunchback carrying the longer ranged JL-2A (JL-2甲/JuLang-2"Jia") has reached the western press as well.
This Rick Fisher piece has some earlier clues and pictures of the improved 09IVA SSBN and its SLBM:
http://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/wp-co ... -2-15a.pdf
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:29 am
by redcoat
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:24 pm
by stilesw
Hongjian,
Thank you for the item. I've added it to the informal CMANO reference library. Again, if anyone wants access to this Dropbox library please PM me with your email address.
-Wayne Stiles
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:49 pm
by kevinkins
A story of mostly local interest here in NJ, but may serve as info for scenarios relying on strategic refueling.
Kevin
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:06 pm
by mikmykWS
ORIGINAL: Dysta
http://www.dawn.com/news/1307384/pakist ... se-missile (w/ video)
http://thediplomat.com/2017/01/pakistan ... -what-now/
http://quwa.org/2017/01/09/pakistan-tes ... e-missile/
Most medias presumed Agosta 90B can launch Babur cruise missile, and the 3 is the SLCM version. It has less range than land-based version, only 215nm-240mn (400-450km). What caught most attentions than range, is the nuclear capability, which is optionally included.
The missile emerge angle from video is diagonal, believed it's tube-launched rather than rumored VLS.
Pakistan tests Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile
Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) has announced the successful test-firing of a Babur-3 submarine-launched cruise missile (SLCM) on Tuesday, 09 January 2017.
As per ISPR, the test was conducted from “an underwater, mobile platform.”
The Babur-3 SLCM possesses a range of 450 km and relies on an “underwater controlled propulsion” system. The Babur-3 utilizes an “advanced” guidance suite comprising of “Global Navigation, Terrain and Scene Matching Systems.”
ISPR states that the Babur-3 is the SLCM variant of the Babur-2, a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) that was tested on Wednesday, 14 December 2016. Like the Babur-2, the Babur-3 is capable of “terrain hugging and sea-skimming flight capabilities to evade hostile radars and air defences.”
ISPR has heralded the Babur-3 for imbuing Pakistan with “a credible second-strike capability” as well as “augmenting” Pakistan’s deterrence posture.
Notes & Comments:
The introduction of a SLCM was one of Pakistan’s expected deterrence efforts, though its introduction prior to the delivery of the Hangor-class air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines (SSP) was surprising. It had been assumed that the submarines were procured from China because it would have been the simplest method to introduce a sea-based deterrence system, but it now appears that Pakistan sought the capability in accordance with its existing assets, such as the Khalid-class (i.e. Agosta 90B) SSP.
It is not clear at this stage if this specific Babur-3 test was conducted from a submarine or another platform, such as a submerged pontoon.
The Babur-3 does possess a lower range than the Babur-2 (450 km vs. 700 km). The cause for the lower range can only be speculated upon. It is possible that compatibility with the Agosta 90B’s torpedo tubes required the Babur’s length to be reduced, and in turn, necessitated a smaller powerplant.
If this is an accurate understanding of the issue, then it is effectively tied to the design characteristics of Pakistan’s present submarines. It is possible that the Hangor-class SSPs will possess longer torpedo tubes, thus enabling the deployment of the 700 km Babur-2. However, there is no verified insight into the reason. Nonetheless, challenges of this nature could push Pakistan to further its research and development efforts in miniature air-breathing propulsion (for range extension).
The Babur-3 retains the TERCOM and DSMAC-based guidance suite of the Babur-2 and Babur, but ISPR noted that it also benefits from “global navigation” – suggesting that a satellite-navigation system is also in place. It is possible (in light of a likely wartime blackout of GPS) that this is made possible with BeiDou.
ISPR also noted that Babur-3 has a “land-attack mode”, suggesting that an alternate – i.e. anti-shipping – mode is also possible. The core Babur platform, especially in the Babur-2, was positioned as an anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM). However, enabling this capability would require a terminal active-homing seeker, be it active radar-homing or imaging infrared. It is also plausible that the revised 2×3 launcher onboard the fourth Azmat-class FAC is for the Babur-3.
Added this to Db. Added a 2017 Imp Agosta variant thats capable of firing a nuke or conventional Babur.
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:25 pm
by mikmykWS
ORIGINAL: Hongjian
Xianglong (Soaring Dragon II) UAV reportedly in serial production since 2015 & also in formal deployment to operational units
This photo is clearly PSed, but the UAV itself appears to be real. Someone has painstakingly cut out the UAV from its original photo and put it on a fake background - usual Chinese military enthusiast's self-censorship practice.
Added these guys last db round. Should see them next update. There are pictures around.
M
RE: Naval and Defense News
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:06 am
by Hongjian
Some PLA nuclear news:
First; something more about the rumored improved JL-2 (JL-2A):
Some years ago, this photo was stealthily taken in a presentation. It seems to be a leak of the JL-2A's stats:
- 12,000km maximum range;
- 40 tons weight
- One 2.5 Megaton single warhead or up to three 400-600kt MIRVs.
And in other news; the DF-41 has been spotted on the road again.
The first brigade is rumored to be in service by now.
