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RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:49 am
by Andy Mac
ps starting to look round my Soviet forces as I think I will need them - over the next few weeks i will be adjusting prep targets and beginning outline planning my Autumn 45 offensive
When I press the hammer in Manchuria I want to burn through the Japanese defences and be in Korea inside a month.
That means making sure that the Soviet 9th and 10th Air forces are ready and able to secure air superiority by D Day + 3 and unleash the Stumovhicks by Day 3 onto the Japanese Army.
Andy
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:43 pm
by Andy Mac
Note to all allied players - preserve at all costs your B25D1's, G's and H's they are deadly in ground attack when supported by Fighter Bombers.
Getting a strong FB Wing of mixed Beaus and Hurricanes and a Group or two of CAS Mitchells makes a huge difference
They are very very vulnerable to fighter interception so be very carefull with them - I love my D1's !!!!
A20's not as good B25C's not as good, B26's not as good - B25D1 best allied medium bomber bar none !!!! (looking forward to A26 though !!!)
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:33 pm
by Andy Mac
A Lysander Sqn on recon (assuming nothing better)
3 - 5 Sqns of B25D1's/Gs
2 Sqns of Hurricane IV'/Beaus
Jap Div in open terrain
Wait three days for extra crispy toasted Jap Div
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:33 pm
by bbbf
I love finding Jap divisions in clear hexes, it only gets better when they are in strat or move mode - just ask Herbie (1275psi)!
Never get caught without air superiority in the clear as either side (especially armour) - although the weight of Allied AA later on helps to get some payback on the persecutors, I find I have very light AA losses with my strikes on the Japanese.
Do you have any plans to eliminate/neutralise Port Blair?
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:08 pm
by Andy Mac
Breaking news
Paratroopers and Glider Borne Infantry assaulted Bassein today but failed to take the base by coup de main (but only just !!!)
PZB moved the blocking Div off my LOC [&:][&:] that meant IV Corps went into the white on supply and was able to attack and take Prome - BUT the japanese had evacced on the same day so we took an empty base.
With IV and XV Corps joining hands at Prome and XXXIII Corps driving on Toungoo and my supply situation miraculously better because of the re opening of the Ramree overland route I need to think about next moves.
Bassein is now only a matter of time and that really means Rangoon must be undefendable.
PZB is out of town tomorrow so I have time to think but my instinct is to keep after him with all speed and keep up the skeer.
Several of his Divs have been retreated and if Rangoon opens and my supply situation starts to look good then PZB has a major problem.
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:32 am
by Blackhorse
PZB is out of town tomorrow so I have time to think but my instinct is to keep after him with all speed and keep up the skeer.
Follow your instincts.
[:)]
. . . and congratulations on a successful Burma campaign. Textbook.
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:10 pm
by Andy Mac
it aint over yet.
Having studied the replay I think Bassien may not be a slam dunk but having the 7 Divs of IV Corps and 4 Divs of XV Corps join up shuld give me enough punch to push through to Rangoon.
PZB actually timed the evac from Prome very well he is a master of timing.
I will need to go back through and work out where I am but in general I am 'reasonably' confident that I can take Rangoon - however I would much prefer that PZB over commit to keeping the place.
This is a diversion
if PZB pulls back digs in and by avoiding a mobile battle can free up some reserves thats a bad thing.
PZB has tried to fight a fluid battle and its cost him - three stong Corps backed up by strong air are hard to deal with when all you are putting in the way are single Divs.
PZB had a lot of armour in theatre he committed a Div to block XV Corps a Div to block IV Corps and a Div to block XXXIII Corps - he never concentrated his armour behind a solid crust of Infantry Divs and I am not sure why - he left a lot of Inf Divs sitting up by Taung Gyi when I think they would have been better back diggin in with the armoured Divs echeloned behind them concentrated for a couter attack.
One lucky retreat and a Corps could have been routed.
As it is PZB has so far committed a full Corps worth of Armoured Divs piecemeal and without infantry support not sure why
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:32 pm
by Andy Mac
Reviewed story so far
just look at this
Japanese had 4 main concentrations committed excluding the 3 - 4 Divs out in the boonies or on my LOC that are more or less out of the fight.
8th Area Army at Tang Gyi with 6th Guards, 21st and 38th Divs and 7th Tk Bde (so out of the fight as I never intended to use that road)
15th Army blocking XV Corps advance in the centre (37th Div and 3rd Tank Div and a pair of indpt Regts - all retreated at least once
in front of Toungoo 2nd Tank Div, 22nd Recon Regt and 42nd Inf Regt all retreated at least once after heavy air attacks and XXIII Corps attack looks like a pair of Divs at Toungoo itself as well but they may have 5th Guards Div that was retreated and mauled in the Magwe battles
At Prome 9th, 11th Divs an Indpt Mixed Bde and a regt plus Guards tank Div
I just look at that disposition of force PZB was obviously trying to assemble a Panzer Group but has committed them piecemeal and allowed 2 of the 3 Divs to be retreated with heavy losses as they tried to stand up to a full Corps in Indian/Brit infantry backed by air in close terrain.
I dont think Japanese Armoured Divs are blessed with large numbers of organic engineers so I dont think they dig in especially well
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:35 pm
by Andy Mac
Had I given him time to re organise or had he abandoned north Burma earlier i could have been facing 2+ dug in Inf Divs interlocked in bad terrain with a powerfull Panzer Group in reserve ready to counter attack.
The lesson from this I need to keep the pressure up and not delay PZB could still assemble a powerfull force like that if I dont break through to Rangoon quickly and if I give hime time to entrench on a lone say around Moulmein or Tavoy I could still suffer badly
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:40 pm
by Andy Mac
Actually looking at that again
thats 3 Full Japanese Armoured Divs and an Idpt Bde
Remember most of my armour is in Australia.
Guards tank was committed to a battle in bad terrain with 5th Indian Div where the Indian Infantry successfully 'crumbled' the Division with successive attacks
2nd Tank Div was retreated by XXXIII Corps and suffered a lot of casualties
3rd Tank Div was retreated by XV Corps heavy casualties again
Why were they committed so piecemeal they are poor at digging and are not suited to defensive operations had this force been concentrated (as it still could be) into an iron fist I could be in trouble.
XV Corps is light on A/T arty weapons.
XXXIII Corps is light on arty and has a Chinese Corps attached which is poor v armour.
3 massed armoured divs thrown at either of these corps in open ground with air cover could have been (and still could be nasty....)
I need more of my own armour back in Burma to counter this force - but Burma is a Diversion so maybe I shouldnt.
III Indian Corps currently at Perth with the majority of my armour should be preseved for a future attack
My Infantry Divs have performed wonderfully well only really 20th Indian Div is damaged enough to be out of the fight for a few weeks while it recovers disablements.
Most of the rest are in decent shape I actually don't need an admin pause I should keep on pushing until the monsoon hits
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:49 pm
by witpqs
Regarding your comments about anti-tank weapons, by this game date your infantry squads should have pretty impressive anti-hard ratings all by themselves.
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:50 pm
by Andy Mac
with IV and XV Corps joining up I may leave one div t hold Prome and advance in a solid mass 2 Corps in echelon straight at rangoon try and punch through the retreating Prome Army
If I mass 10 Divs into one force can his 3 Divs stope me in jungle terrain where they havent had more than a couple of days to dig in.
maybe its time to change tactics so far its been about single Corps operating in parrallel if I now concentrate the two Corps and try and punch straight through to Rangoon I could maybe pocket a large amount of the Japanese force in Burma
Hmmmm options options
The only issue is can I supply 10 Divs across one dodgy road from Ramree - thats 90 bad miles to Prome and then another 90 from there to Rangoon.
Even if I can get Prome operational as an air head recieving 1,500 tonnes of supply per day from my trashhaulers I am not sure I can supply that much even if I ground the rest of lower Burma.....
Andy
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:58 pm
by Andy Mac
Most do but XXXIII Corps is a little weaker than the others as its gt a Chinese Army as 1/3 of its AV - its only got 2 CW Divs.
But if it goes defensive and I focus everything onto the push on Rangoon maybe just maybe I can make it work - IF (and its a big IF) I can keep 10 Divs supplied for 10 days across one road.......
Thats the real question......supply can I keep 10 Divs supplied for 10 days to take rangoon....if not i will need to split IV Corps and XV Corps onto different roads and try to engineer one of them drawing supply from the Central Burma bases
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:08 pm
by Hortlund
Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern.
- Heinz Guderian
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:21 pm
by Andy Mac
Great quote
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:53 pm
by bbbf
I think PzB is relying on raw AV's of his units to determine their 'battle hardness'. As the Allied troops firepower has increased significantly since the start of the war, this is an inadequate measure to use this late in the war.
So, he has committed troops he fully expected to hold positions, without realising that the force would be severely attritted by your superior force on an AV:AV basis. Add the loss of air superiority and he was on a hiding to nothing in Burma with his disposition of force.
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:37 am
by Andy Mac
maybe or maybe there is a something lurking out there KB being spotted in Bay of Bengal is perhaps a sign....
Anyway
Decision made
I have a small aroured force attached to IV and XV Corps - 3 x Aroured Car Regts, 2 Light Tank Regients, a depleted Aroured Bde and a full strength Motorised Bde.
I a going to punch this force all under the command of Wingates 3rd (Special Force) Div HQ and the Chindit Bde currently at Prome this force will force a crossing of the Irrawaddy south of Prome immediately and move to support the Paratroopers at Bassein - I dont expect PZB to reinforce but if he does this force will capture Bassein and threaten the Japanese from the West
Everything else which will be at least 8 Infantry Divisons will push down the Prome/Rangoon Road towards
7th Indian Div and 2nd British Div are a bit knocked about as they were the vanguard forcing the river crossing into Prome so they will stay behind to garrison Prome until 9th Australian Div gets out of the mountains.
Andy
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:31 am
by Andy Mac
Not a lot to say another day passes and my troops continue to advance since the star of this campaign thewre have been very few battles its mostly been bounce out and pursue - I doubt a stand up knock down brawl would have been sustaiable with y supply net
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:00 am
by Andy Mac
Just one point on supply I want to raise with everyone at no point have I had a real multi day battle so far.
Battle of the Box where Buma Corps broke out onto the plains north of Schwebo - 3 day battle by a single Corps
Battle of Plains - never happened PZB abandoned central Burma so it was taking empty bases
Crossing the Chindwin - XV Corps forcing the river against 14th Div - 1 day battle
Battle of Magwe - 2 Indian Divs v 1 Japanese Div (3 day battle)
Battle of Ramree - Allied Paratroopers v Japanese Paratroopers
Battle of Arakan - 5th Indian Div v Guards Tank Div (15 day battle but only one reinforced Div v 1 reinforced Div)
Battle of Toungoo - XXXIII Corps v 2nd Tank Div (2 day attack)
Battle of Shin Hills - XV Corps v 3rd Tank Div and then 37th Inf Div (2 day battle but against two seperate opponents)
Assault Crossing to Prome - IV Corps focing the river but not following up to take base
At no point in last two months have I had to fight a Corps level 2 - 3 day battle
PZB has abandoned defensive postions or been flanked but he has never really put me in a 5 - 10 day Corps v Corps level slugging match that eats supply - and on the two occasions when he did I sat still and conserved supply until he was flanked and manouvered out of the positoin
So my supply situation is not entirely of my own doing he has allowed me to conserve supplies - e.g. had he bombarded every day at Prome when IV Corps was hunkering down it would have cost me days.
I have never had to attack 4 - 6 days in a row or even 4 - 6 days out of 10 in a major stand up/knock down brawl as I have been able to manouver - the closest were the fights on the Schwebo plain but I was close to my stockpiles there
RE: Rangoon or Bust
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:53 pm
by Andy Mac
OK PZB managed to kick my Paratroopers out of Bassein my armour will cross the Irrawaddy tomorrow so Bassein will fall I then need to look long and hard at next steps
Prome is starting to act as a supply dump all efforts are bing made to increase supply levels to support next steps supply is being drawn forward from many sources and it wil now become my main supply head
In other news my attack in SWPAC is under way
HMS Rvenge acting as flagship for an amphib TF covered by the fighters of the FAA are moving on PM
They are covered by 250 P38's based in North Australia looks like I have surprise so we will see what we shall see as to whether or not the attack works