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While I have to wait for the next turn [>:], I am thinking about how to proceed in the game.

I hate the attitude of most Japanese players, to either try something totally mad (All of Australia or all of India - or Russia [;)]) and quit once they don't succeed, or to dig in and often quit after the KB is smashed.
So I have to think about my options for the overall strategy of the game, once more.

Right now, I have the total naval supremacy. I will keep it well into 43, especially when I increase my NSY to built all CVs with full acceleartion. To achieve that, I have to built another 300 NYS. They will cost 900 HI, which is affordable with a current HI surplus of 2.900. Most of the NSY will be turned off, once the CVs are built, so I will have some HI reserves in 44, despite lacking the stockpiles, now.

If stationed at Truk, these forces will be able to halt any serious advance, if they are able to intervene. Consequently, those forces have to be used wisely, stay inside the inner lines all the time (or at least as soon as his first offensive can be expected) and mustn't be needed elsewhere.
If I cover an invasion of Western Australia in mid 43, I need all of KB to do so, but leave the Carolines open for him.

So I think about using the supposedly superior ground forces wherever no naval cover is needed. This leaves only three choices after china:
- Northern Australia and Northeastern Australia, as both can be covered mostly by LBA
- Eastern (real) India
- Russia

Australia:
I see nothing worthy to gain in Australia. There's a lot of ressources, but that's it. Even if I were able to conquer all of Australia, what is it good for? If I don't defend it seriously, it can be taken back easily - or he can draw in more and more of my reserves by starting small and increasing his forces over the time.
The invasion of the Northern Coast is still a viable option, but rather to destroy his forces and have weak cover to the south than to really commit forces after the initial invasion. But again: If I don't put enough troops there, he'll push me out or draw reseves in. Not really an attractive option.
I want to come to stay, as the necessary defense perimeter is already mine.

India:
Ressources and lots of HI. But this will allow him to use the Indian army which is mostly useless otherwise. Does that make sense? I already lack oil, so what would some hundred additional HI in India be good for, when the fuel and oil isn't produced locally?

Russia:
Russia's army is very strong. But it is in my backyard, it will enter the war anyways but in times where I need my forces anywhere but fighting overwhelming Russian forces.
Meanwhile, it offers HI, Oil and Ressources. So it seems an invasion of Russia should be seriously considered - IF China is secure!
As I don't need any fleet there, a ground offensive from mid 43 to mid 44 or late 44 is a real option, given the chance to muster enough divisions.


So right now, I am seriously considering to stay mostly defensive on all fronts while reinforcing China to take it out as fast as possible. After that, I might invade Russia!
Has anyone done that before? What forces are needed for that?


Strategic Reserves:
I see no sense in taking some Islands with the hope only to stall him. I rather hope to win whereever he invades for as long as possible. To achieve that, I need strategic and tactical reserves to reinforce fronts when he invades, or to do counterinvasions.
My plan is, to have two divisions each in the DEI and in Truk to react on his advances. Does anyone know whether it creates disruption and fatuige if units are on ships for weeks and months? If not, I might have the ships in strategic mode on fast APs in the DEI and on an amphib TF in Truk.


Forcing him to battle:
To defend the empire, I have to keep naval supremacy for as long as possible. So I have to think about the basic idea of Yamamoto in 42, when he intended to draw the USN into battle by invading Something (Midway) which can't be ignored.
Is there anything, that might draw USS America into battle this year?
While I will have a significant force left in 43, it seems better to await the LBA to weaken him before the KB strikes after 42.

ORIGINAL: Historiker
Does anyone know whether it creates disruption and fatuige if units are on ships for weeks and months?

Yes, it absolutely does. See the manual for a breakdown of how the different times and ship classes upon which they are embarked affect their disruption / fatigue ratings.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Historiker
Does anyone know whether it creates disruption and fatuige if units are on ships for weeks and months?

Yes, it absolutely does. See the manual for a breakdown of how the different times and ship classes upon which they are embarked affect their disruption / fatigue ratings.

Thank you. So keep the ships and units in port, but not embarqued.
Makes sense. I wouldn't want to be cramped onto a troop transport for months, too...

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Russia:
Russia's army is very strong. But it is in my backyard, it will enter the war anyways but in times where I need my forces anywhere but fighting overwhelming Russian forces.
Meanwhile, it offers HI, Oil and Ressources. So it seems an invasion of Russia should be seriously considered - IF China is secure!
As I don't need any fleet there, a ground offensive from mid 43 to mid 44 or late 44 is a real option, given the chance to muster enough divisions.

Very dubious, IMO. The Russian forces-air and ground-gain strength and preparation as the war progresses. I've only seen successful IJ attacks on Russia early in the war.

The problem with an early assault on Russia is the inevitability of him basing 4EBs on Russian soil and strat bombing the home islands in 1942 or 1943. Available fighters in this time frame suck against bombers, so his B24s and B17s will be burning out your HI centers and aircraft factories with impunity from Vladivostok in 1942. Bad, bad tidings.

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Historiker
Does anyone know whether it creates disruption and fatuige if units are on ships for weeks and months?

Yes, it absolutely does. See the manual for a breakdown of how the different times and ship classes upon which they are embarked affect their disruption / fatigue ratings.

Thank you. So keep the ships and units in port, but not embarqued.
Makes sense. I wouldn't want to be cramped onto a troop transport for months, too...

Sounds right. Also, where to prep your counterattacking / counteroffensive / mobile reserve troops?

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Russia:
Russia's army is very strong. But it is in my backyard, it will enter the war anyways but in times where I need my forces anywhere but fighting overwhelming Russian forces.
Meanwhile, it offers HI, Oil and Ressources. So it seems an invasion of Russia should be seriously considered - IF China is secure!
As I don't need any fleet there, a ground offensive from mid 43 to mid 44 or late 44 is a real option, given the chance to muster enough divisions.

Very dubious, IMO. The Russian forces-air and ground-gain strength and preparation as the war progresses. I've only seen successful IJ attacks on Russia early in the war.

The problem with an early assault on Russia is the inevitability of him basing 4EBs on Russian soil and strat bombing the home islands in 1942 or 1943. Available fighters in this time frame suck against bombers, so his B24s and B17s will be burning out your HI centers and aircraft factories with impunity from Vladivostok in 1942. Bad, bad tidings.

I will have to negotiate HRs on that topic, before any invasion can be considered.
I am starting a PBEM against obvert right now, and he wanted the HR that only russian planes and ships are based in Russia.
I'd also want to have the ability for initial strikes against the ports and airfields. So it had to be activated before the real invasion.

So any war against russia is subject to the HRs Mike and I might agree to.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy



Yes, it absolutely does. See the manual for a breakdown of how the different times and ship classes upon which they are embarked affect their disruption / fatigue ratings.

Thank you. So keep the ships and units in port, but not embarqued.
Makes sense. I wouldn't want to be cramped onto a troop transport for months, too...

Sounds right. Also, where to prep your counterattacking / counteroffensive / mobile reserve troops?

The Truk reserves will be used for the Solomones (so propably Guadalcanal) AND the Carolines. So it is hard to prep them. I will look into the game which are the most valuable islands and then think about wich bases to prepare.

The DEI-Reserves will most likely sit in either Singapore or Java. Their area of duty is Sumatra, Java and the island chain down to Timor. So it'll be hard to prepare, propably impossible.

Do you have suggestions?

Russia:
Russia's army is very strong. But it is in my backyard, it will enter the war anyways but in times where I need my forces anywhere but fighting overwhelming Russian forces.
Meanwhile, it offers HI, Oil and Ressources. So it seems an invasion of Russia should be seriously considered - IF China is secure!
As I don't need any fleet there, a ground offensive from mid 43 to mid 44 or late 44 is a real option, given the chance to muster enough divisions.


So right now, I am seriously considering to stay mostly defensive on all fronts while reinforcing China to take it out as fast as possible. After that, I might invade Russia!
Has anyone done that before? What forces are needed for that?

YES! I have been fascinated with this idea since starting WITP. I invaded against the AI in pre-AE days and took out Russia handily by 43. But that was the AI. [;)]

For serious Russia stuff check out Rader's AAR 'Taming the Bear.' All you need is there. He crushed it but didn't go far enough, which even he admitted later. It can be done, but you need the rail choke point near Chita, and after you trap and encircle the Russian forces in a pocket around Vladivostok and Khabarovsk, you NEED to push to at least Irkutsk in the North. It's very hard for reinforcements to move past that choke point and flank you.

I hope you go for it, but you do need to get China subjugated first. I'd say all out for China in mid 42 and a Russian invasion by about Jan 43.

An HR on no Allied units in Russia if activated might be wise as well.

We are already at 5/15/42, so China can hardly be taken out before 5/43, I guess.

The Soviets recieve more than 5k additional AV until mid 43! [X(]
They also already have about 15k AV!

That seems more than hard, especially if they are sitting mostly behind lvl 6 fortifications in 43... [:(]


So I guess more than parity in forces is impossible, especially if I want to have 4 to 5 divisions as reserve for the SRA and the Pacific and sufficiant forces in Burma.
Especially as any invasion in Russia will surely lead to an Allied counterattack shortly after that, as the air forces of both branches will be needed in russia to reduce units and keep airfields closed.

Operation Eastern Barbarossa:
While it is way to early to get into operational planning, I spend my time waiting for the turn thinking how Eastern Barbarossa could be done.

The amount of bombers needed would be enormous. The KB would propably be forced to join the initial strike to take out as many ships as possible, while the airfields get bombed.

I think, creating Schwerpunke is the right choice. So one big offensive in the north to conquer Chita and then push towards the end of the map with 4 to 5 divisions while the rest slowly moves east and south along the russo-manchurian border.
Vladivostok seems very hard to take if not starved before. So propably stay defensive here, despite the obvious benefit from taking out the southern bases ASAP.
To starve the Vladivistok pocket, a smaller offensive should propably cross the border north of Khabarovsk (to avoid a contested crossing of the river) and then take the base.

Meanwhile, not only the airfields have to bombed, but also all LI has to smashed into pieces.
When China is taken, I don't need the Supplies there, so destroyed LI seems fine. Having taken Khabarovsk tightens the grip on Vladivostok and together with the bombed LI, he has 140 Supplies less each turn.
So all that's left are the 80 HI in Vadivostok. Should I decide to bomb them as well, he has no supply production left in the south, while his troops eat 30k each month without air operations and supply hits.
So strategic bombing seems to make really sense here. The 80 HI aren't that much to rebuilt, so I might well go for it!

After that, an invasion at Olga might draw his units south. If it works, he brings units into the range of naval guns, which sounds like a very good deal.


The whole offensive propably has to be protected by Japanese Aleutians, to avoid any aerial or naval reinforcements. Unfortunately, this also means garrisons... [:(]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

We are already at 5/15/42, so China can hardly be taken out before 5/43, I guess.

The Soviets recieve more than 5k additional AV until mid 43! [X(]
They also already have about 15k AV!

That seems more than hard, especially if they are sitting mostly behind lvl 6 fortifications in 43... [:(]


So I guess more than parity in forces is impossible, especially if I want to have 4 to 5 divisions as reserve for the SRA and the Pacific and sufficiant forces in Burma.
Especially as any invasion in Russia will surely lead to an Allied counterattack shortly after that, as the air forces of both branches will be needed in russia to reduce units and keep airfields closed.

Did you look at withdrawls as well? Not sure but I thought that they lose some also. The one good thing is that the air replacements are low once you get through the first wave on map.

No matter how you look at it, Russia is tough. Vlad will have to be starved. Not sure though about forts if he's only starting to build now, much later than an Allied player would with Dec 8 41 start.

The oil in the North is the real prize.

2,3k AV withdraw.

There ain't that much oil.
It's rather to get the chance for unmolested construction and to free 20k of AV from both China and Manchuria. Those 20k will be descisive on Luzon, Formosa, DEI and Burma/Siam.

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Historiker



Thank you. So keep the ships and units in port, but not embarqued.
Makes sense. I wouldn't want to be cramped onto a troop transport for months, too...

Sounds right. Also, where to prep your counterattacking / counteroffensive / mobile reserve troops?

The Truk reserves will be used for the Solomones (so propably Guadalcanal) AND the Carolines. So it is hard to prep them. I will look into the game which are the most valuable islands and then think about wich bases to prepare.

The DEI-Reserves will most likely sit in either Singapore or Java. Their area of duty is Sumatra, Java and the island chain down to Timor. So it'll be hard to prepare, propably impossible.

Do you have suggestions?

No. Not really. It's something I grapple with myself-where to prep my reserve strike force(s). There are arguments for keeping units at 100 prep-regardless of where it is. Other arguments for prepping for the most likely avenues of advance for the Allies.

ORIGINAL: obvert

An HR on no Allied units in Russia if activated might be wise as well.

If I were playing as the Allies, I would never agree to this.

IRL, American bomber crews flew limited sorties from Russian airbases. So did the RAF, particularly later in the war. If Japanese hegemony resulted in an attack on the Soviet Far East in 1942, I would bet they'd be only too happy to have American bombers based at Vladivostok pounding Tokyo into rubble.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: obvert

An HR on no Allied units in Russia if activated might be wise as well.

If I were playing as the Allies, I would never agree to this.

IRL, American bomber crews flew limited sorties from Russian airbases. So did the RAF, particularly later in the war. If Japanese hegemony resulted in an attack on the Soviet Far East in 1942, I would bet they'd be only too happy to have American bombers based at Vladivostok pounding Tokyo into rubble.

I agree.

It will depend on Mike whether he wants to fight in russia or not. I don't think I can afford to find P-38 and the first P-51s and P-47s protecting Russia's airfields and escorting B-17s and B-24s over the Home Islands.

I think China can be taken out pretty quick! It will require most of the IJAF but I think its doable within 6 months.

I know absolutly nothing about the russians but when I look at the Russian OOB its pretty impressive. The divisions have very heavy arty integrated aswell as lots of AT. Soviet also seems to have pretty decent Aircraft pools. In 9/42 they have I think around 150 Mig-3s in the pools. Havn´t looked how much is on map. Loads of IL-2 aswell!

You really think its doable as late as 43?

ORIGINAL: Historiker

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: obvert

An HR on no Allied units in Russia if activated might be wise as well.

If I were playing as the Allies, I would never agree to this.

IRL, American bomber crews flew limited sorties from Russian airbases. So did the RAF, particularly later in the war. If Japanese hegemony resulted in an attack on the Soviet Far East in 1942, I would bet they'd be only too happy to have American bombers based at Vladivostok pounding Tokyo into rubble.

I agree.

It will depend on Mike whether he wants to fight in russia or not. I don't think I can afford to find P-38 and the first P-51s and P-47s protecting Russia's airfields and escorting B-17s and B-24s over the Home Islands.

There was a big discussion in Rader's thread about this. He made some good points, and I looked a bit farther and found that there was a lot of tension around those Russia based planes in Europe. They flew few missions and were mired in political struggle. It didnt last long or have much real effect.

In the Pacific some B-29s landing in Russia were never returned and they reverse engineered the plane and manufactured them after the war! (Couldn't get the right thickness of aluminum for the shell so it was much heavier and had worse performance).

It's not as cut and dried ITRW as one might assume. In AE I think it either has to be very limited or not at all.

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I think China can be taken out pretty quick! It will require most of the IJAF but I think its doable within 6 months.

I know absolutly nothing about the russians but when I look at the Russian OOB its pretty impressive. The divisions have very heavy arty integrated aswell as lots of AT. Soviet also seems to have pretty decent Aircraft pools. In 9/42 they have I think around 150 Mig-3s in the pools. Havn´t looked how much is on map. Loads of IL-2 aswell!

You really think its doable as late as 43?

I don't know.

I have to think about what to do until China is taken out. When this is done, I have to find out how much exactly I can muster for that task. Also: If Mike is already in Burma by then, I'll propably be better off pushing him out with the chinese forces.

Just to have some background on the Russia idea, here are links to both AARs from the rader/jzanes game.

Interestingly I had forgotten that he didn't take out China first! He pushed forward and created a strong MLR. Then went ahead in May 42!

jzane's
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2347310&mpage=3&key=

rader's
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2421884

Here is another one that Seydlitz wrote, 'Nomonhon Redux.' Rader mentions it as a reason he thought it was possible to take out Russia. I haven't read it though.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2228497

Another bro battle....

I will refrain from commenting. Not really qualified anymore.