Matrix Games Forums

The tip of an iceberg is 9%.

4th and last in the series.

I've been working for 6 hours, my wife is having lunch, so I need to eat breakfast now. I'll do the last page of this tutorial later - back to debugging after lunch, er, ... breakfast.

Here is the last page for this tutorial. Weather is next tutorial, #7, which should be quite short.

[font="courier new"]Hi I am this “new player” who never played Wif but bought the game to be prepared when the computer version is out.[/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"]Read the rulebook a few times,setting up the Barbarossa scen.[/font]
[font="courier new"]at the moment.[/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"]I was already confused how aircraft were differentiated because in the scenario booklet it says under 24.1.6[/font]
[font="times new roman"]“Some of the columns relate to aircraft set-up. Aircraft types are differentiated according to the time taken to build the unit.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]In the colums of the scenario set-up it says under aircraft differentiated “by numbers of engine”[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]And in the beginning of tutorial 6 it says [/font]
[font="times new roman"]“During set-up fighters are randomly drawn based on their cost”[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]This is not clear to me.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Regards Bob[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"]is "[/font]

ORIGINAL: graf spee

[font="courier new"]Hi I am this “new player” who never played Wif but bought the game to be prepared when the computer version is out.[/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"]Read the rulebook a few times,setting up the Barbarossa scen.[/font]
[font="courier new"]at the moment.[/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"]I was already confused how aircraft were differentiated because in the scenario booklet it says under 24.1.6[/font]
[font="times new roman"]“Some of the columns relate to aircraft set-up. Aircraft types are differentiated according to the time taken to build the unit.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]In the colums of the scenario set-up it says under aircraft differentiated “by numbers of engine”[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]And in the beginning of tutorial 6 it says [/font]
[font="times new roman"]“During set-up fighters are randomly drawn based on their cost”[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]This is not clear to me.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Regards Bob[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"]is "[/font]

Number of engines, Time taken to build, and Cost are all intimately linked in the WiF FE game system.

If you play with the pilots Optional Rule (this is simpler to explain, but I'll talk about the case if you play without pilots in the end) :

Fighters with 1 engine are called F2 (or FTR2), they cost 2 BP and take 2 turns to built.
Fighters with 2 engines are called F3 (or FTR3), they cost 3 BP and take 3 turns to built.

Land bombers with 1 engine are called L2 (LND2), they cost 2 BP and take 2 turns to built.
Land bombers with 2 engines are called L3 (LND3), they cost 3 BP and take 3 turns to built.
Land bombers with 4 engines are called L4 (LND4), they cost 4 BP and take 4 turns to built.

Naval bombers with 1 engine are called N2 (NAV2), they cost 2 BP and take 2 turns to built.
Naval bombers with 2 engines are called N3 (NAV3), they cost 3 BP and take 3 turns to built.
Naval bombers with 4 engines are called N4 (NAV4), they cost 4 BP and take 4 turns to built.

Air Transport with 2 engines are called ATR3, they cost 3 BP and take 3 turns to built.
Air Transport with 4 engines are called ATR4, they cost 4 BP and take 4 turns to built.

As you can see, the cost is equal to the duration to build, and the cost are consistent across planes types.
So :
a plane costing 2 is a 1 engined plane.
a plane costing 3 is a 2 engined plane.
a plane costing 4 is a 4 engined plane.

Finaly, if playing without pilots, all planes' costs are increased by 2 BP.
Durations are not affected.


Now, speaking about WF FE the cardboard game, there are 2 kinds of Plane counters. There are the plane counters from the standard WiF countersheets (CS1-6), and there are the planes counters from the PiF countersheets (CS7-9).
The former counters have their cost reflecting a "without pilots" play.
The later counters have their cost reflecting a "with pilots" play.
So, a FTR2 from the CS1-6 will have "4-2" printed on the back of the counter (cost 4, duration to built 2), while a FTR2 from CS7-9 will only have "2" printed on its back (cost 2, duration to built 2).
Whatever those figures printed on the back of the counters, if playing with pilots, the costs are as indicated above, and if playing without pilots the costs are the same as indicated above increased by 2 BP.

The scenario book of WiF FE differentiate those aircrafts in the setup charts. There are 2 columns for FTR2, 2 columns for FTR3, etc...
Bottom line is that, you randomely pick up as many FTR2 as the sum of both columns, and you choose within your picks the number of the first column (WiF FE planes) planes. Those planes are to be setup on the map, and the remaining planes go to the reserve pool, except if not playing with pilots. In that later case, they are returned to the force pool.

Well, I hope I was clear enought

ORIGINAL: graf spee

[font="courier new"]Hi I am this “new player” who never played Wif but bought the game to be prepared when the computer version is out.[/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"]Read the rulebook a few times,setting up the Barbarossa scen.[/font]
[font="courier new"]at the moment.[/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"]I was already confused how aircraft were differentiated because in the scenario booklet it says under 24.1.6[/font]
[font="times new roman"]“Some of the columns relate to aircraft set-up. Aircraft types are differentiated according to the time taken to build the unit.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]In the colums of the scenario set-up it says under aircraft differentiated “by numbers of engine”[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]And in the beginning of tutorial 6 it says [/font]
[font="times new roman"]“During set-up fighters are randomly drawn based on their cost”[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]This is not clear to me.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Regards Bob[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"] [/font]
[font="courier new"]is "[/font]

Let me see if I can help clarify this.

But first: I did not write any of the rules in WIF FE and my goal is to make the text clearer in the Rules As Coded document for MWIF - without changing their meaning.

There is a history for WIF that goes back over 20 years and some of us have a sort of accumulated knowledge that helps and hinders us. It helps in this case because we know what the authors are trying to say. It hinders at times because we remember and (try to) use obsolete rules instead of the current ones.

Aircraft are separated by type and by cost. Therefore, there are separate groups of fighters: those that cost 2 build points and those that cost 3 BPs. For naval air units, there are 3 groups: 2 BPs, 3BPs, and 4BP. These are referred to as F2 & F3, N2, N3, & N4 respectively. Likewise there are land bombers (L2, L3, & L4) and air transports/ATR (A2, A3, A4) - I am not sure if there are any A2's still in the game.

Those are the 4 main air unit groupings. If you play with Carrier Air Units, then all the carrier air units are lumped into one group.

The cost in BPs is the same as the # of turns it take to build the unit. So, an F2 costs 2 BPs and takes 2 turns. Hence the use in the rules of referring to either cost or # of turns.

For the land bombers, an L2 also has 1 engine, and an L4 has 4 eninges, which leads to the reference to the # of engines at times. I believe this reference is not always accurate (though I could be wrong).

Finally, (and there are a whole lot of knowledgeable WIF players who have been going crazy reading this up to this point because I haven't mentioned it already), all of the above assumes that you are playing with the pilots option. When you use the pilots option, pilots are built separately at a cost of 2 BPs per pilot. Should you decide to not use pilots, then the cost of every air unit is increased by 2 BPs. So, an F2 would cost 4 BPs if the pilot option is not selected.

The best way to refer to these would have been by the time it takes to build them. The other references are just confusing (as you duiscovered).

Hey it seems that we tried each one of us to explain it.

I like it when you explain that the system should have refered to the types by their duration to built, and not their costs [:D].

Those are the 4 main air unit groupings. If you play with Carrier Air Units, then all the carrier air units are lumped into one group.

Here I would like to say that CVP (Carrier Planes) are also separated by Cost.
There are CVP who cost 0 BP, some who cost 1 BP (they are 95% of them), and some who cost 2 BP.

When you want to build CVP, you can choose whether you want to build CVP0, CVP1 or CVP2.
This was this latter point that I wanted to precise.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Hey it seems that we tried each one of us to explain it.

I like it when you explain that the system should have refered to the types by their duration to built, and not their costs [:D].

Those are the 4 main air unit groupings. If you play with Carrier Air Units, then all the carrier air units are lumped into one group.

Here I would like to say that CVP (Carrier Planes) are also separated by Cost.
There are CVP who cost 0 BP, some who cost 1 BP (they are 95% of them), and some who cost 2 BP.

When you want to build CVP, you can choose whether you want to build CVP0, CVP1 or CVP2.
This was this latter point that I wanted to precise.

Yeah, well, during setup they are lumped all together for random selection, undifferentiated by cost.

But, as you state clearly, when you go to build them during production, they are separated by cost. Yet another quirk in the rules.

I am not sure, but he might also be asking:

"In the paper/cardboard copy of the game, how do I tell the difference between a Naval bomber, and a Land bomber? (Especially if both cost the same.)"

Generally, it's the way that the silhouette of the aircraft is shown on the counter.

A Land bomber is shown from a "top view". Using post #21, the American A-22 is a Land bomber.

A Naval Bomber is shown with a side view, with the aircraft canted down in a "diving" angle. Back to post #21, the CW Albacore is a Naval bomber.

Note that the computer version of the game will "know" what type of plane is what, and label them for you (and it keep track of the build limits, too).

Here is a new page (it goes last) for the air units tutorial. In RAW this is section 28.

Hello I am reading all the tutorials, should have done it before, very nice & interesting.

About that fighter, the Buffalo, if lend-leased to Commonwealth, I would see a use of it in the early years of the war. In 1939, it's one of the rare fighters the british have with a long range (7), it can go into a 3 section of a sea box, I like it because of that, even with a crappy (3) of air rating.

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Hello I am reading all the tutorials, should have done it before, very nice & interesting.

About that fighter, the Buffalo, if lend-leased to Commonwealth, I would see a use of it in the early years of the war. In 1939, it's one of the rare fighters the british have with a long range (7), it can go into a 3 section of a sea box, I like it because of that, even with a crappy (3) of air rating.

Agreed.

I also like the US sourced P-40 for the same reason for the CW, but unfortunately China happens to like it better all the time.

Bump.