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RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:14 pm
by Marc gto
thats funny regular bird...
having lived there myself for a short time im sure its pronounced kan-aw in most hollers
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:42 am
by Gray_Lensman
Kanawha Valley pronunciation conflict above reminds me of Missouri pronunciation conflict. Here we have residents who say it's Missour"i", and other residents who say it's Missour"ah"... Rather amusing, since the Indians probably had there own inflection, which would be the real "correct" pronunciation.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:45 am
by elmo3
I kanawah see what the big deal is...
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:00 am
by General Quarters
ORIGINAL: elmo3
I kanawah see what the big deal is...
Clever
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:29 am
by christof139
I currently live in the Kanawha Valley and I assure you it is pronounced KA-NA-WHA.
I guess in some of the hollows it may be pronounced Kan-aw, or if spoken quickly.
< Message edited by regularbird -- 1/2/2007 3:05:44 PM >
Hi,
I could indeed have misheard it, but my people live in do not live in the hollows, and it did sound more of a 'Can-aw', but I may have missed a soft 'ah', very probable I did.
I say it Can-ah-wha, but my cousin corrected me with a different pronunciation.
So, there are local dialects as you point out, and that could very well be the case. Very interesting.
NY City had 5 official dialects according to linguists, one for each burrough, and all just slightly differnet thus them dialects.
Where do you live in WV?? That is such a beautiful State. Our people originally worked in the coal mines of PA and the WV. Times are tough there and elsewhere in the old Rustbelt now. We have 15% unemployment in Detroit including Police Officers and Teachers.
Thanx for the info., Chris
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:38 am
by christof139
Hi again,
"thats funny regular bird...
having lived there myself for a short time im sure its pronounced kan-aw in most hollers
"
That's what I thought my cousin said. now I am confused a bit more. Ha ha ha!!! it may be a local dialect thing. [8|]
Chris
PS: Many people here in Detroit have a very, very, very slight drawl, mostly and nearly unoticeable, but some people catch it every now and then, especially if they are foreigners. many Canadians speak in the Canadian-English dialect, I have visited there frequnetly.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:05 pm
by regularbird
Hey Chris I live in a suberb town of Charleston called Saint Albans sometimes reffered to as Snalbans. It is a great place to live, here in the Valley unemployment is not to bad and cost of living is quite reasonable. I agree it is a beautiful state especially if you know where to look. I guess the more I think about it to the untrained ear it would sound like can-aw but if you listen closely most people drag the ah part along which is hardly audible. Wher did you live when you were here?
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:18 pm
by bountyhunter
ORIGINAL: chris0827
West Virginia wasn't an enemy state. They formed a government in June 1861 and officially became a state in june 1863. At least 25,000 West Virginians fought in the Union army.
Techinically it never was a state - it was formed unconstitutionally... you can't form a state from the territiory of the other... Lincoln, who declared that the states could'nt and didn't actually secede, rushed the vote through the two "state" governments. I guess the same argument should go for Maryland (in reverse) since they were kept in the Union by force.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:42 pm
by Twotribes
Yes, it was unconstitutional to form West Virginia As it was, BUT you can form a State from another, with the permission of the Government of the losing State. As to maryland it was not "Constitutional" to secede but more to the point, as I recall the State voted and voted to remain IN the Union.
As to West Virginia, it IS a State, it doesnt magically vanish cause it was made the way it was. Can someone do a search? I wonder if the reconstruction Government of Virginia accepted formally the creation of West Virginia. Failing that I guess an enterprising Virginia could sue to have West Virginia returned to Virginia. )
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:18 pm
by regularbird
The federal court, forget the date, ruled that WV owed Virginia x amount million dollars. I think it took until 1924 to pay it off.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:35 pm
by chris0827
ORIGINAL: regularbird
The federal court, forget the date, ruled that WV owed Virginia x amount million dollars. I think it took until 1924 to pay it off.
You could argue that the government formed in western Virginia was the legal government of the entire state since the original government was engaged in an unlawful rebellion. That would allow them to form a new state.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:27 pm
by Twotribes
No it wouldnt. The only arguement that would be "Constitutional" would be that The Government formed in that part of Virginia represented the entire State due to rebellion. That still leaves you with finding documentation that A) the West Virginian Government made this claim B) That they passed legislation splitting the State C) That doing such allowed the Government of "Virginia" to cease to exsist and instead assume Governship of the New State.
Even though the people of the State were in rebellion the Constitution is clear that ONLY the people ( through their elected representitives) can agree to split a State. The US Congress does NOT have the power to do it by Fiat.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:42 pm
by regularbird
I think the federal case that made WV pay out the a$$ to Virginia included Virginia's recognition of WV statehood. Prior to the war there was a proposal to create a new state to be called "Vandallia" out of approximately the same area as WV. I forget all the details.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:55 pm
by bountyhunter
ORIGINAL: Twotribes
As to maryland it was not "Constitutional" to secede but more to the point, as I recall the State voted and voted to remain IN the Union.
Correct, but only after half of the state government was "imprisoned."
The counties that broke away were eventually considered the legitimate government of Virginia (eventhough they didn't represent even half of the state). What of the Virginia government in "exile" in Alexandria?
There is an article out there by a Minnesota law professor but I can't get access to the whole article... just the abstract.
Abstract:
When the Commonwealth of Virginia announced it was seceding from the Union, the northwestern corner of Virginia formed a rump government-in-exile, declared itself the lawful government of Virginia, and gave "Virginia's" consent to the creation of a new State of West Virginia consisting of essentially the same northwestern corner of old Virginia. Congress and the Lincoln administration recognized the northwestern rump as the legitimate government of Virginia, and voted to admit West Virginia as a State.
Could they do that? This article takes on the odd but amazingly complicated (and occasionally interesting) constitutional question of whether West Virginia is legitimately a State of the Union or is instead an illegal, breakaway province of Virginia. While scarcely a burning legal issue in the twenty-first century, the question of West Virginia's constitutionality turns out to be more than of just quaint historical interest, but also to say a great deal about textualism and formalism as legitimate modes of constitutional interpretation today.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=371340
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:17 pm
by chris0827
Well I don't think Virginia wants it back. Lots of West Virginia jokes get told in Virginia.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:24 pm
by Twotribes
ORIGINAL: bountyhunter
ORIGINAL: Twotribes
As to maryland it was not "Constitutional" to secede but more to the point, as I recall the State voted and voted to remain IN the Union.
Correct, but only after half of the state government was "imprisoned."
The counties that broke away were eventually considered the legitimate government of Virginia (eventhough they didn't represent even half of the state). What of the Virginia government in "exile" in Alexandria?
There is an article out there by a Minnesota law professor but I can't get access to the whole article... just the abstract.
Abstract:
When the Commonwealth of Virginia announced it was seceding from the Union, the northwestern corner of Virginia formed a rump government-in-exile, declared itself the lawful government of Virginia, and gave "Virginia's" consent to the creation of a new State of West Virginia consisting of essentially the same northwestern corner of old Virginia. Congress and the Lincoln administration recognized the northwestern rump as the legitimate government of Virginia, and voted to admit West Virginia as a State.
Could they do that? This article takes on the odd but amazingly complicated (and occasionally interesting) constitutional question of whether West Virginia is legitimately a State of the Union or is instead an illegal, breakaway province of Virginia. While scarcely a burning legal issue in the twenty-first century, the question of West Virginia's constitutionality turns out to be more than of just quaint historical interest, but also to say a great deal about textualism and formalism as legitimate modes of constitutional interpretation today.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=371340
It was clearly ( in my opinion) Unconstitutional.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:33 pm
by regularbird
As a native West Virginian should I now consider myself an OUTLAW, or at least an UN-Costitutionalist.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:36 pm
by chris0827
ORIGINAL: regularbird
As a native West Virginian should I now consider myself an OUTLAW, or at least an UN-Costitutionalist.
Try to surrender to the Virginia authorities.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:56 pm
by bountyhunter
Wow 38 posts and no tirades!
As a Virginia native, I will gladly accept your surrender, hehe.
RE: East Ohio River
Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:18 pm
by regularbird
As long as I do do not have to pay your taxes then consider myself surrendered. My wife is from VA and I often tell here that we kicked them out of the Great State of WV.