Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Clarifications,

112 didnt fight in the BoB, I havent seen RAF Sharkmouths from the BoB.

112 flew in the Western Desert Air Force with Tomahawks from mid 41 & Kittyhawks.

The men pictured look USAAF to me, RAF in the Desert were a little more scruffy.

I think many pilots wore the Mae West, a lot of action took place near the coast or on Convoy Cover duties.

As its a drawing it could bear no actual resemblence to aircraft or crew uniforms.

OK - you are right - the 112 Squadron was already in Egypt at the time of the outbreak of war.

After thinking on it, i saw the shark-mouthed British aircraft on a show about the BoB (not sure if it was a P-40, though), however, we know how they can just fling in stock footage. On the other hand, maybe it was another squadron.

I think many pilots wore the Mae West, a lot of action took place near the coast or on Convoy Cover duties.

i mentioned the life jackets to try to exclude the AVG. Any unit operating near the ocean/Med would probably wear them.

The drawing is actually of a picture that he was using as a template so it should be fairly accurate.  He drew the picture a few years ago, so my buddy doesn't remember which book he copied it from.
 

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

i mentioned the life jackets to try to exclude the AVG. Any unit operating near the ocean/Med would probably wear them.

I'm sure it's not the AVG. The AVG was merged into the USAAF about the time they got P-40Es. The P-40 in the picture is definitely a P-40E or later. There is the possibility that it is a P-40 from the CBI, but I have a feeling it is somewhere in Italy.

Bill

ORIGINAL: wdolson

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

i mentioned the life jackets to try to exclude the AVG. Any unit operating near the ocean/Med would probably wear them.

I'm sure it's not the AVG. The AVG was merged into the USAAF about the time they got P-40Es. The P-40 in the picture is definitely a P-40E or later. There is the possibility that it is a P-40 from the CBI, but I have a feeling it is somewhere in Italy.

Bill

It is true that the AVG got absorbed by the USAAF, but it was (sort of) the same unit by a different name - and (iirc) they retained the shark mouth motif.

Here is a pic of an RAF pilot - note the helmet, and shoulder insignias to compare with the drawing above...

Nice pull on the chevrons rt!



Here is the top that was cropped on the initial scan. Don't know if the exhaust port configuration changed on the different models of P-40, but there may be a clue on the top couple of inches of the picture.

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Here is a pic of an RAF pilot - note the helmet, and shoulder insignias to compare with the drawing above...

That is only one style of RAF helmet. I believe that is a Type C.

Here is a page of USAAF gear: http://www.303rdbg.com/uniforms-gear.html

The USAAF headphones are very square.

On this site, the first picture shows RAF pilots wearing the rounded headphone type helmets: http://www.danielsww2.com/page3.html

Bill

If there is no scoop on top of the prop spinner its a P40 F or L, aka Kittyhawk II or IIA, with a Packard Merlin instead of an Alison, extensively used by both the RAF and USAF in the MTO. The carbs look sort of about right. So I'm sticking with my (and Bill's) earlier view. It could even be a Sth African, NZ or Aust. squadron from that theatre.

BTW, I am sure the circular patch on the Sgt Pilot in rtpasso's cockpit shot has the word "Canada" over the wings, which actually doesn't help that much because the dominions contributed aircrew to RAF squadrons, as well as having their own squadrons, and squadrons manned by their personnel in the UK and elsewhere nominally named as RCAF or RAAF etc but provided with machines by and maintained by the RAF. Those personnel wore their own countries uniforms, which differed in detail from the RAF uniform, eg the RAAF winter uniform colour was midnight blue as opposed to RAF blue-gray, but were in general terms the same in style, cut etc.

Its got 6 wing guns, that makes it a P-40E or later doesnt it??
 
Plus it looks a lot like a training situation, all the pics I could see of 112 Sqn or AVG have them pilots in anything but a uniform.
 
IanR,
 
rtpasso's picture is of someone sitting in a Spitfire cockpit, he is only comparing helmets. And I don think they are that similar, inthe drawing they appear oval , in the pic they look round with stratight sides.

RT, is the Canadian pilot in the photo Flight Sergeant (later Wing Commander) James Francis "Stocky" Edwards, DFC, DFM? He flew in Spitfires as well as Kittyhawks.

Som RCAF guys in alaska 1943..... (I think Umnak Airfield)
(14th Sqadron Commander Bradley R Walker)
more about 14th Sqr: http://www.rcaf.com/squadrons/1-100seri ... uadron.php

ORIGINAL: Ian R

RT, is the Canadian pilot in the photo Flight Sergeant (later Wing Commander) James Francis "Stocky" Edwards, DFC, DFM? He flew in Spitfires as well as Kittyhawks.

Rats, i don't have the guys name right now (i am at work, it is at home) but it *might* be as it was supposed to be some highly decorated pilot. For some reason i can't find the pic on the site i thought i got it from.

ORIGINAL: grossmetzger

Som RCAF guys in alaska 1943..... (I think Umnak Airfield)
(14th Sqadron Commander Bradley R Walker)
more about 14th Sqr: http://www.rcaf.com/squadrons/1-100seri ... uadron.php

Ooh - this looks familiar!!!

Good find, grossmetzger!!!! [&o] [&o] [&o]

Excellent, We were all wrong[;)]

the find was quite easy but not the translation...[:D]
http://avia-hobby.ru/publ/alaska/alaska.html

later i found the rcaf page.....
http://www.rcaf.com/archives/archives_g ... /index.htm

cheers, béla

ORIGINAL: grossmetzger

the find was quite easy but not the translation...[:D]
http://avia-hobby.ru/publ/alaska/alaska.html

later i found the rcaf page.....
http://www.rcaf.com/archives/archives_g ... /index.htm

cheers, béla

Well, the text under the photo at the Russian site translates to : "Pilots of the 14th squadron RCAF before the combat mission. O.Amchitka, the spring 1943" according to Babelfish...

the proxyserver of the place i´m at the moment has a problem with babelfish... so i had to use a online dictionary...
thank god they allow matrixgames [:)]

Not completely - maybe we got the model right. KittyHawk I or US equivalent (see short horizontal gap between prop spinner and radiator scoop. Earlier models had a bigger gap.)

Although 14th squadron had Kittyhawk Mk Is, as did 111th which was at Umak beforte it, 111th then moved to Amchitka, nine USAAF P'40K-1s were acquired as replacement aircraft in August 1942 (these operated in RCAF markings but with USAAF serial? and were handed back in June 1943).

So maybe its actually a 111th Sqn aircraft, although 14th Sqn elements did stage forward and undertake missions with 111th.

Actually it could be a Kittyhawk I: Curtiss Kittyhawk Mk 1 at the Canada Aviation Museum, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

ORIGINAL: grossmetzger

Som RCAF guys in alaska 1943..... (I think Umnak Airfield)
(14th Sqadron Commander Bradley R Walker)
more about 14th Sqr: http://www.rcaf.com/squadrons/1-100seri ... uadron.php

Cool. I didn't know the RCAF operated any units in Alaska. I knew those helmets were RAF style. I was very wrong about the location though.

Bill