Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Chuck2
The basis of the ships not operating 24hrs/day is mainly the need to refuel. According to the link below the swift boat only had the ability to go on a 600-800 kilometer patrol with a top speed of 20 to 25 knots .

At 2400km/week a riverine unit could travel about 686km in two days. Then it would need to refuel - couple of hours. The fact remains that river vessels have berths & cooking facilities - you don't have to stop for sleep or eating, like a motorized unit would.

River boats have the ability to RBC much larger units out of the way ...

A completely different problem - and that's the one that needs to be addressed. Let's don't fix the wrong thing.

...and only pay 1 mp regardless of who controls the territory...

For ground units, the rationale for the extra cost to enter enemy territory is that the unit must convert from straight column to column with flankers & advance guards to avoid being ambushed. Since part of the force is off in the toughest terrain scouting the flanks and checking the ground ahead, the unit moves slower. There is no corresponding factor for naval units - they all move over the same terrain - water. I wouldn't think swift boats would slow down in enemy territory. Would that make them safer?

If you want to discuss other river boats, please bring up some examples. For large rivers that can carry ocean-going ships, it might be better to make the river a deep water hex.

Well, there was this guy who designed an American Civil War scenario. [:)]

Whether a deep water hex could be used instead of a river depends on the scale and whether it should require amphib ability to be crossed.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

At 2400km/week a riverine unit could travel about 686km in two days. Then it would need to refuel - couple of hours. The fact remains that river vessels have berths & cooking facilities - you don't have to stop for sleep or eating, like a motorized unit would.

Not really sure of the operational, as opposed to the tactical, speed of the swift boat unit. Take a recce regiment. The TOAW system says they have an operational speed of 4 kilometers per hour. The cars themselves probably do at least 10 times this speed.

...and only pay 1 mp regardless of who controls the territory...

For ground units, the rationale for the extra cost to enter enemy territory is that the unit must convert from straight column to column with flankers & advance guards to avoid being ambushed. Since part of the force is off in the toughest terrain scouting the flanks and checking the ground ahead, the unit moves slower. There is no corresponding factor for naval units - they all move over the same terrain - water. I wouldn't think swift boats would slow down in enemy territory. Would that make them safer?

Note sure. Though if there were enemy units along the banks of the river they may want to engage them somehow. See the John Kerry stories, lol.

If you want to discuss other river boats, please bring up some examples. For large rivers that can carry ocean-going ships, it might be better to make the river a deep water hex.

Well, there was this guy who designed an American Civil War scenario. [:)]

That uses deep water hex, although as much as anything to allow the use of rivers for transporting units.

ORIGINAL: Chuck2

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: Chuck2
I would imagine most boats like the "swift boats" of Vietnam had short ranges and couldn't operate 24 hours per day. These shouldn't have the same movement rates as destroyers or cruisers, for example. They should operate more like fast cavalry that only uses rivers or flooded marsh.

They don't have the same movement rate as destroyers or cruisers. Those move at 4200km/week. What's your basis for the claim that they couldn't operate 24hrs/day? And would that apply to any river-moving vessel, not just the case of swift boats?

The basis of the ships not operating 24hrs/day is mainly the need to refuel. According to the link below the swift boat only had the ability to go on a 600-800 kilometer patrol with a top speed of 20 to 25 knots . What that means operationally I'm not sure... but if you play a Vietnam scenario you can see the boats exploring half the rivers in Vietnam in a single turn. River boats have the ability to RBC much larger units out of the way and only pay 1 mp regardless of who controls the territory... all and all river boats are too powerful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Patrol_Craft

If you want to discuss other river boats, please bring up some examples. For large rivers that can carry ocean-going ships, it might be better to make the river a deep water hex.

..what 'e said..