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Hard Sarge,
 
Many thanks for the quick info - I will see if I can find this for myself now.
 
DavidR

No Hassle mate, I happened to be looking and seen a new post

you should be able to find it

Hard Sarge,
 
Although I know about the OOB  and the detail tabs I never knew that this information could be accessed during a turn. I will now try it.
 
On another point are Leaders of BG's etc still early victims in combat or are the specified pilot deaths etc more  randomised in the new version
 
DavidR

we working on that, Harley thinks he knows why it looks like the game picks out the leaders, now if we can rework that, or if it needs to be reworked, will take a little bit as we still got all the linking and fonts stuff to get right first

In regards to the unit info screen, I noticed that there was no info on current unit size. It seems that the player is required to add up the numbers manually...

For example, in post #19, in the mid-lower right of the info screen we can see what all those aircraft are doing, but not how many aircraft are assigned to the unit as a whole (at least, not at a glance). Adding those numbers up tell me that there is 78 aircraft assigned to the unit. Is that the max it normally has? (since the "AC lost" through "Pilots MIA" are all zero, I would have to say yes...

In WiTP, Unit max size and current size are shown in the upper left, near the exp and morale values... but I suppose the logical place to put it in this screen is at the bottom of the lower right listing of aircraft activity.

In WiTP, the players have aircraft pools from which active units draw replacement aircraft and pilots. Does ED-BR do something similar?

Hmmm

in the upper left, it tells the type of unit (56th FG (Group))

which it can be a number of types, and each type will have it's own size

which a basic FG can fly up to 48 planes, but can be. should be 72 planes

(which in end Oct the VIII and I believe the other AFs as well, changed the sizes of there squadrons and groups, so the VIIIth FGs will get a "B" Group, which some units also flew with a C Group, but those were normally smaller sized and the 2 groups work out with the numbers (to be honest, most A and B flew with 36, and then the C flew with 24, so, 2 48 size groups work out the same as the 3 smaller groups)

the BGs are a little too large at the start and a little too small after the change, but I think it aves out, so I am not going to add "B" BGs (early on BGs were to put up 18 planes, later, they put up 36, we get 32 at the start, but keep it at 32 though out the war)

WC Squadrons are even worse, the BC flew a enlarged Squadron, while the fighters flew a smaller one, but we basicly got the BC squadron size for all (27 total, 24 flyable, for the GB, 16 flyable for the US)
but where the WC can be even HARDer to follow, they would form up as wings (or place a wing on a AF and use that as a unit) but while it may of flown 12 planes, and a 36 plane wing, it would fly multi missions, with different pilots, so it could still end up with 24 different pilots flying during the day, so was it's strenght 12 or 24 ?)

which most Allied Units were way oversized by the middle/end of the war

not sure I answered anything or not, or just everybody more confused

opps sorry for got the last part

yes we have pools

the defending side, builds planes and these are placed into the pool (stockpile) if there are more planes then are needed, the stockpile builds up and you can change to a different type of plane if needed/wanted

the attacking side, gets there from some what offboard

which the defender can have his production messed up, either by changeing types or damage, while the attacker is constant

pilots are a little different, there is no pool persay, you do not/can not go to the pool and pull poilts out, the game does that, it has a limited number each turn to use, and will place them were needed

we do have a training system set up, so if you do not use up all of the pilots for this turn, they will be seen as getting extra training and will get better as the time goes on, but as of right now, you are not going to see too much of this, or know it is going on, just that it is

part of what I am trying to do on the side is to fill in as many real pilots as I can to the data base, one thing this does, for a new unit coming into the game, it takes away from the pool system to fill it out

in the old game, you may get 3 FGs 2 BGs and in the Med another 2 BGs all on the same day, or very close to each other, what would happen is,  the pools could not supply enough pilots to fill them up, so they sat day after day, while your waiting for the units to fill out

not sure I answered anything or not, or just everybody more confused

Hehe. I appreciate the history lesson, I really do. Allow me to rephrase my question:

Can/shouldn't the player, at a glance, be able to tell whether or not a particular unit is over strength, okeedokee, or understrength at any point in time?

As you mention, there were many "sizes" of air units in play (probably determined by operational needs and aircraft/pilot availability), from ad-hoc units and (scripted?) organisational changes in unit size making things confusing to those who are not as familiar with the ETO air war as you seem to be...

yes we have pools

All right. Thanks for all the info, here.

Hmm

not sure, in Witp and what not, you need to have as many planes in the pool as you have in the unit you want to change, so to change a FG with 72 planes in, you need 72 of those in the pool, or it is no go

in these, if you have 1 plane in the pool you can change to it (you may have to wait for the unit to fill up though)

which I agree, that the player should know, can know, be we have the info all over the place, so it should be seeable

one hassle maybe, I know too much of the background, so do not see what someone who does not, needs to see and know

okay like in this shot, does the player need to be told somewhere that a BG has 48 planes and 32 of them will be flyable when at full strength, or does is this info being shown to him ?

Well it has taken me a long time to find some good info on the IXth FGs, which now that I have, I been filling them in

here is a shot of the pilot page for the 363rd FG (one of the Mustang groups from the IXth)

The info there (in your post #30) shows how many planes are available for missions. In my humble opinion, unit max size does not need to be on this screen. This screen seems to be usefull for a slightly different purpose, IMO, which seems to be an overall view for strategic/theatre mission planning.

For example, the top unit, the 91st BG, seems to have 48 aircraft assigned to it, 32 of which are ready to fly. At a glance, the player can see which units from a list of units are most ready to fly a particular mission.

The individual unit info screen in post #19 seems to be more usefull for focusing more narrowly on a unit, for evaluating it's performance and so forth, and hence the greater amount of detailed info available.

You mentioned that FG should have 72 aircraft, but the numbers add up to 78. Why is that?

If I saw this group with 36 aircraft total, is it some oddball half-sized group, or has it suffered casualties? (If the morale was average to high, I would assume that the group was a half-sized group as intended. If it's morale was low, I would assume that it had suffered terrible casualties...)

Do you feel that knowing what the units normal max size should be, to be unnecessary?

Hard Sarge,
 
Has the the Summary File ( Campaign Info) been recoded.
 
In the original BTR game ( with JCL 1.06x5) that I am playing there are discrepancies between the end of one day and the start of the next viz :
 
END OF DAY                                                     BEGINNING OF NEXT DAY
Allied Aircraft Losses                     35                                      35
Alliied Highest Aircraft Losses          6   B25D Mitchell                    4  Lancaster 1
Allied Pilots KIA                            18                                      18
Allied Pilots MIA                           17                                       17
Allied Pilots WIA                            2                                         2
 
Axis Aircraft Losses                      21                                       21
Axis Highest Aircraft Losses           13  BF109G-6                          1  Do 217N
Axis pilots KIA                             13                                        13
Axis Pilots MIA                              0                                          0
Axis Pilots WIA                              7                                         7
 
a) Why should the type of aircraft having the highest losses change when forwarding to the nest day.
 
b) The way the losses are calculated are inconsistant ( Allied does not count WIA but Axis Appears to do so )
 
c) Axis losses do not add up as they do not take into account the loss of 1 RE 2001 Falco of the Italian Airforce.
 
Have you noticed any similar problems and if so have they been sorted?
 
Regards
 
DavidR
 
  

ORIGINAL: mlees

The info there (in your post #30) shows how many planes are available for missions. In my humble opinion, unit max size does not need to be on this screen. This screen seems to be usefull for a slightly different purpose, IMO, which seems to be an overall view for strategic/theatre mission planning.

For example, the top unit, the 91st BG, seems to have 48 aircraft assigned to it, 32 of which are ready to fly. At a glance, the player can see which units from a list of units are most ready to fly a particular mission.

The individual unit info screen in post #19 seems to be more usefull for focusing more narrowly on a unit, for evaluating it's performance and so forth, and hence the greater amount of detailed info available.

You mentioned that FG should have 72 aircraft, but the numbers add up to 78. Why is that?

If I saw this group with 36 aircraft total, is it some oddball half-sized group, or has it suffered casualties? (If the morale was average to high, I would assume that the group was a half-sized group as intended. If it's morale was low, I would assume that it had suffered terrible casualties...)

Do you feel that knowing what the units normal max size should be, to be unnecessary?

LOL, had me confused here for a bit, if you look at the pic of the 4th, it has 71 planes (lost one in combat) the 56th shows 78 planes, it has a couple extra in repair

I think the program adds some planes here and there (I started up a game to look and this time the 4th, 56th and 353rd all had 72 planes and the 78th had 78) I think it is just a balance thing to be sure there are enough planes out there

if the unit had 36 planes and the morale was still high, it may of just ran into some flak and the planes are being repaired, or bad weather on the way home (Ice and what not are modelled)

if it had 36 planes and the morale was down, you need to check the pilots, as they may of been hit HARD and only has 36 pilots in the group and is waiting for more replacements

(I think in WitP you will always have enough pilots to fly a mission, the planes are what counts, in these games, you may have planes, but you need pilots, with out a full number of pilots, you will fly short units into combat)

No I don't think the player should be left in the dark about sizes, but I think the info is there, just depends on where it is at and if it needs to be put into more places

Ok, sir. Thanks for your time! I appreciate that.

ORIGINAL: DavidR

Hard Sarge,

Has the the Summary File ( Campaign Info) been recoded.

In the original BTR game ( with JCL 1.06x5) that I am playing there are discrepancies between the end of one day and the start of the next viz :

END OF DAY BEGINNING OF NEXT DAY
Allied Aircraft Losses 35 35
Alliied Highest Aircraft Losses 6 B25D Mitchell 4 Lancaster 1
Allied Pilots KIA 18 18
Allied Pilots MIA 17 17
Allied Pilots WIA 2 2

Axis Aircraft Losses 21 21
Axis Highest Aircraft Losses 13 BF109G-6 1 Do 217N
Axis pilots KIA 13 13
Axis Pilots MIA 0 0
Axis Pilots WIA 7 7

a) Why should the type of aircraft having the highest losses change when forwarding to the nest day.

b) The way the losses are calculated are inconsistant ( Allied does not count WIA but Axis Appears to do so )

c) Axis losses do not add up as they do not take into account the loss of 1 RE 2001 Falco of the Italian Airforce.

Have you noticed any similar problems and if so have they been sorted?

Regards

DavidR

Hi David,
to be honest that is a easy one

in the first part, during a turn, the highest losses are listed for the highest losses for that day, at the start of the day, there have been no losses yet, so it is showing you another loss total

that day you lost 35 planes and 6 of them were B-25s which were the highest of one type to be lost that day

I am not sure I follow the 2nd question, the Allies do not follow WIA ? but the numbers you show, show 2 Allied WIA ?

you may mean the Axis does not show MIA ?, which that is basicly, the Axis for the most part, know if there pilots are dead or if they are wounded, but if they get shot down over the water, then they will show up as MIA

the game does track pilots as Alive, Shot down, but not dead (MIA) and wounded (WIA) or plain Dead (KIA) there is also a area of KIA will kills, but that is a code thingy

the last one I am not sure about, I will try and look into it, ovreall it should be tracking all of the kills

Okay for this part of the question at least

I think this is what is happening

the info you see during the day is what is going on that day, the start of the next day, the screen clears up most of the info, but the totals, the program is asking for a filler, so is picking a plane type to show up and then shows the totals for that plane type, until new info is ready to be deplayed

in my case here, it is picking the first plane in sides data base, but I do know that it is not always the same plane type listed before action starts, so not sure

Hard Sarge,
 
Thanks for the explanation ,
 
Re my part b) I was thinking that the totals should be like an algebra equation , Total losses = KIA+MIA+WIA but of course a pilot might not be any of KIA,WIA,or MIA so the total losses will not necessarily equal the sum  of the others.
 
With regard to the missing Italian plane , looking at it again it appears that the Italian loss is indeed included in the Axis total.
 
Apologies
 
Regards
 
DavidR

Roger, yes, in the game, you can be shot down, or crash, and be fine, and ready to go for the next day, you also can be wounded, for a set number of days, so yea, the pilots and the planes totals will quicky become none matching

Ah great, I was getting ready to start doing some testing to see what and why you were seeing this

I think in the old game, a few of the planes got listed with the Allied part of the screen, so it could be easy to miss them if you were looking at the GE side

any other questions ?

keeps me on my toes and all


 

okay, since we been talking some and I got a new set of data dumps, thought I would update that part of it


the Pilot Data Base as of right now holds
as of
June..................Sept...a few days ago
1934 US Pilots........3733...4860
655 GB................1143...1285
250 Poles..............249...250
124 Can................342...347
68 Cz...................70....87
45 NZ...................78....78
167 Fr.................388...388
32 Aus.................137...141
52 Du...................54....55
14 Nor..................79....88
24 S.Af.................33....33
Brazilian.....................60
Russian........................1

3365..................6306..7673

807 GE................1860..2424
175 Ro..................80....80
64 It..................164...167
108 Hu.................105...106
Co Axis......................130

1154..................2109..2907

the English, CW are a total pain !, they do not like to list names or full names, even there war docs and claims, they file with out the full name