Matrix Games Forums

Nikademus,
 
Wanting a challenge is one thing.  Manually setting your Italians to 50 and then starting a thread called "Italians Really Suck" is another. . .

I don't see him complaining about it being "wrong" or "broken". Just that it was tough, which it is, as i've done one too. [:)]

Nikademus,
 
So you wouldn't have a problem manually setting a USMC core to 50 and then starting a thread called "USMC Really Sucks"?

[:D]
Gunny would be after you then...

I dont see the problem with me setting the exp to 50 and then saying they suck. They do and thats a fact even if its my own fault. I have always set any force i start a long campaign to 50 or some time to 45 wiith. It makes a more challenging campaign for me. Thats my style and thats makes them suck. I dont see why i cant make that statemanet even tho it may be my own fault. I started the Germans at 45 and they seemed to do ok may have been the great equipment over what the Italians seem to have during the same period. I like to see my troops make the improvments over time just takes my men longer is all to get to elite. Another thing I dont do is just upgrade my units when the new upgrades are available. I only upgrade units after a battle if they were destroyed. But thats my way of playing and thats the beauty of spwaw you can all play the way you want not the way someone says you should.

robot,
 
I hope you had a great time in Mexico.  Welcome back.  I certainly am not opposed to your way of playing.  For years I turned "historical ratings" OFF and manually set my own units' quality.  But I got the distinct impression that other people in this thread were misinterpreting what was going on here.  My sense was that people were thinking that you were saying that the Italians suck, period, in all cases and in all ways.  I was trying to point out that you were manually setting them to 50 which made them suck.  And that you were not saying that the Italians suck at all times and in all ways.
 
However, the title of your thread is somewhat misleading, so I can see where people might interpret your thread to be saying that the Italians suck at all times and in all ways.  A better title might have been "My Italians Suck", and for you to have stated clearly right from the beginning that they sucked because you made them suck by setting them to 50.
 
Anyway, it has been shown over and over on this board that everybody has a different way to play SPWAW that makes it enjoyable for them.  And the fact that you enjoy playing the way you do is all that matters.
 
I say again, welcome back from your vacation in Mexico and happy gaming.
 
--V

Well i guess its historicial, the Italians did suck in real life!

Thanks Va for the kind words and thats exactly what i meant. My Italians do more then suck thay are awful. And I know its my own fault. I could have started them out higher. But then I never did with the other powers so why should I play them different.

The battle I am fighting at the minute per my dar they are once again in mass retreat. I am down to 49 percent fighting strength and I will once again have trouble fixing and no upgrades. Wont have enough points to repair yet alone upgrade anything.

The British have over run all the victory hexes and I am in the process of trying to retake them all. Once again I had to call on the Germans to rescue me. Got a hold of a small panzer company and they are trying to destroy some of the British tanks that hold the two northern objectives. I have lost way too many men and armor units for me to get a minor win. Might be able to get a draw if we can retake the objectives by the end of battle.

To me this makes for a much more interesting battle then to be able to just tear the AI to pieces every battle. Its frutrating as hell but much more fun then just over powering the AI time after time.

Got them thru there first battle. Managed to get a draw. Was unable to repair all the units due to the heavy losses tho. Have a defend next time so maybe will get them all repaired after that battle. At least now I have at least 19 who are 70 and over in exp now. Lowest one is 40 but he died so had to restart him. Will hope we do better with this next defend and be able to gain some more and get better I hope.

ORIGINAL: Mac67

Well i guess its historicial, the Italians did suck in real life!

Now cut it down guys. Ok?

Let's keep this a game.

ORIGINAL: Mau Fox

ORIGINAL: Mac67

Well i guess its historicial, the Italians did suck in real life!

Now cut it down guys. Ok?

Let's keep this a game.

Just pointing out a fact. The Italian military did not fare too well during WW2. Now, I think that the reputation that the Italian soldiers have for being cowardly fighters is unjust. The blame for them not being more successful is more likely down to bad leadership and the fact that they were not as well equiped as other armies of the day.

ORIGINAL: Mac67
Just pointing out a fact. The Italian military did not fare too well during WW2. Now, I think that the reputation that the Italian soldiers have for being cowardly fighters is unjust. The blame for them not being more successful is more likely down to bad leadership and the fact that they were not as well equiped as other armies of the day.

I am fine with pointing out facts.

It's the way people uses to point out that makes me bored.

Now, your way it's a little bit better.

Goin back even further, Libyan rebels also kicked their butts for awhile in the late 20s and early 30s. The Italians responded with a massive retalation towards the rebel home bases, with relocations and murders of the rebels' families.

Thye actually made a movie called "Lion Of The Desert" about this ,with Anthony Quinn as the Libyan leader and Oliver Reed as Graziani (yup, the same one who did not exactly cover himself in glory in WW2) , and a rather Hammy Rod Steiger as Mussolini.I am not sure about it total accuracy,but the battle scenes are impressive.It is availbale on DVD.
The Ethiopians also gave the Italians a rought time,despite the fact the Italians were much better armed then the Ethopians. So it's no wonder the Italians did so poorlyagainst the Brits who were much better armed than the Italians.
It's not a question of courage..the Italians fought very well in World War 1 (at one time against a young German Officer named Rommel,ironically enough),but Mussolini flooded the Italian army with Fascist polticals appontees (something Hitler,crazy as he was,knew better..at least at first..then to do) and the quality of the Italian army went downhill fast.
Add to the fact their equipment was vastly inferior in the Allies..in armor particularly,the officers and the men had a huge gap between them.(the enlisted men, quite rightly,had little faith in their officers),and it's no wonder the Italians ..with some notable exceptions(the Ariete Armor unit in particular)..did so poorly in WW2.
Rommel himself was shocked at the decline he noted in the Italian Military .

OK Than, I must say that the Italians can kick ass, like against the Yugoslavians, and I have handed the Russians their asses preeettty much every single time I have played against them. But after Italy joins the Allies in 1943 and get rid of the old fascist "Italian" (coughcoughgermancoughcough) army and start getting equipment from the Western Allies, quality starts going uphill fast.

But as for Lion of the Desert, I have seen it too. As for its "total accuracy," you can stop being sure. It is not. At all. Thee film was in effect the propaganda film of Colonel Gaddafi's little smearjob of the Italians and glorification of the Libyans. Several of the scenes are blatant lies in order to smear Italy (which the high Colonel harbors a particular hatred of) and to make the Libyans look akin to the French or Danish resistance.

Don't buy that. The Libyans were fierce fighters, but as far as I have studied, I have found a grand total of 27+ battles, raids, or skirmishes of all sizes that they won. By any measure (counting both Pyrrhic Italian and Pyrrhic Rebel victories in the Libyan side.) There are undoubtably more, but for the most part, the Italians smashed the rebels when they got their heads out of their caves, and the reason they lasted as long as they did is mainly because they had better knowledge of the terrain and thus could melt into the background.

A great deal of the cause of the decline was because Hitler was afraid that Italians (who were less than pleased with his puppet the Moose) would revolt once armed and trained, and thus he STUFFED the ranks with German "advisers" into the ranks and mainly sent the actual Italians into the Eastern Front, where it was judged less likely for them to run off and join the other side.

This situation, while quite far from ideal, was still in all likelihood salvageable, but Mussolini made things even worse: he decreed that the Germans in the "Italian" army were to speak Italian and ONLY Italian, that only Italian weapons were to be used, and that most of the officers were to be Italian (and those guys were, as somebody pointed out, like the NKVD or the German command in the early years of the war save for some few but noticeable exceptions)

And since the Germans made up at LEAST slightly more than half of the Army fighting the Western Allies, and since their own command treated them like trash, well, the result is collapse and implosion.

Just my Two Cents.

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Nikademus,

So you wouldn't have a problem manually setting a USMC core to 50 and then starting a thread called "USMC Really Sucks"?

If I wrote it the way Robot did.....nope.

I'll top your "USMC sucks at 50 thread" and do a "USMC sucks at 25" thread![:'(]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'll top your "USMC sucks at 50 thread" and do a "USMC sucks at 25" thread![:'(]

Hey, mister, if a marine's gonna suck, he will do it better than anyone else.[:D] Besides, at 25, they are ALL gonna suck.

What kind of campaign would that be? "Let's see who can run away from each other the quickest". Italians vs French, yeah, that would do it. However, a cooking contest between the two would be quite interesting. Yum yum. " I will defeat your shrimp linguini with a cream-cheese and strawberry-filled croissant!" [:'(]

Actually, Erwin, at 25 they all do nothing, as the quality only goes down to 30. Shame on you for not knowing that[:-].

Oh yes, and I almost forgot, on you too, Terminus, as you started this. A pox on both your houses for upsetting the almighty god of SPWAW[:D].

Pffffft sideways to you...[:'(]