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RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:36 pm
by Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: hawker
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
Don't forget too that the movement routine @ full speed often can allow a surface force to slip in and muck it up before getting blasted to hell by airpower so BB's can be even more of a threat. Rob the RRoberson did that to me in our 44' PBEM. Through a combination of timing and luck (my carriers failed to "find" the fat target sitting in the invasion hex due to weather) he was able to pull off a straight old fashioned surface battle and traded virtually 1:1 in BB's as a result....a better, more satisfying fate the RL IJN would have appreciated vs. the ignomity of being plastered by air without being able to retaliate.
Nik,you mention 44 campaign,my statement is that PH BB are USELESS in first part of 42.They are good only for target practice[8D].
Japan has a LOT of very good trained LBA and any less than decent Japanese player will prevent PH BB bombing of IMPORTANT bases,as i say those BBs can bombard Wake.. etc.
Yes,luck can be a factor,but not that big and if allied player is fool enough to sent BBs from Pearl anywhere west of 20 hex from Kwai. they are doomed.
Only relatively safe place that allied player can sent BBs is Australia.
All i want to say is that BBs has a very narrow place they can go against Japan in 1942.
Hawker, I agree with you but I'd say the max rang is 10-11 hexes from Kwajalein (max torp range for the Betty/Nell). Anything beyond that and they'll carry bombs which will just bounce off the BBs.
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:43 pm
by ny59giants
What about hitting PH with 4 of the 6 KB Fleet CVs and have to other two available for ops in the DEI? Just 2 CVs would be a force to be reckoned with! Couple them to the mini-KB and you might have a REAL strike force!
Of course this thought would leave the PH Attack Force at only 4 CVs...would they be enough???
I had some thoughts on this, if and when, I go over to the "dark side." Take CarDiv 2 (Hiryu and Soryu) and combine with mini-KB to hit either Manila or Singapore. Gets more CV's in the SRA while the PH strike first hits the AF to close that down and then goes after the Naval forces. The Allied player has to think about making a run for it and on guessing the right direction to run towards. You would have to move KB around to try to out guess him. Might make an interesting opening. [:D][:D]
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:44 pm
by KDonovan
Hawker, I agree with you but I'd say the max rang is 10-11 hexes from Kwajalein (max torp range for the Betty/Nell). Anything beyond that and they'll carry bombs which will just bounce off the BBs.
i thought its 15 hexes for torpedo range (in stock), 10-11 if you want Zero's to escort. But if its just BB's the Betty's don't need to worry about escorts
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:49 pm
by Nikademus
two carriers out in the open ocean can be very dangerous to ships. I once split off CarDiv 5 from the KB while having the remainder conduct ops in the western Pacific. My opponent thought KB was still concentrated and was using the RN to hit my bases good with bombardment attacks. Was able to give him quite the suprise when Div5's DB's and TB's tore out the heart of Force Z^5.
I don't often split up KB though. Quantity has a quality all it's own.
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:57 pm
by hawker
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: hawker
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
Don't forget too that the movement routine @ full speed often can allow a surface force to slip in and muck it up before getting blasted to hell by airpower so BB's can be even more of a threat. Rob the RRoberson did that to me in our 44' PBEM. Through a combination of timing and luck (my carriers failed to "find" the fat target sitting in the invasion hex due to weather) he was able to pull off a straight old fashioned surface battle and traded virtually 1:1 in BB's as a result....a better, more satisfying fate the RL IJN would have appreciated vs. the ignomity of being plastered by air without being able to retaliate.
Nik,you mention 44 campaign,my statement is that PH BB are USELESS in first part of 42.They are good only for target practice[8D].
Japan has a LOT of very good trained LBA and any less than decent Japanese player will prevent PH BB bombing of IMPORTANT bases,as i say those BBs can bombard Wake.. etc.
Yes,luck can be a factor,but not that big and if allied player is fool enough to sent BBs from Pearl anywhere west of 20 hex from Kwai. they are doomed.
Only relatively safe place that allied player can sent BBs is Australia.
All i want to say is that BBs has a very narrow place they can go against Japan in 1942.
Hawker, I agree with you but I'd say the max rang is 10-11 hexes from Kwajalein (max torp range for the Betty/Nell). Anything beyond that and they'll carry bombs which will just bounce off the BBs.
Mike,i think that max torp. range for betty is 15 hex as Donovan says.
Quantity has a quality all it's own.
Hey Nik,you talk just like great marshall Zhukov[;)]
As i said,POW is much greater treat than PH BB in any way.
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:01 pm
by Nikademus
ORIGINAL: hawker
Hey Nik,you talk just like great marshall Zhukov[;)]
As i said,POW is much greater treat than PH BB in any way.
Indeed....i'm awesome at talking tactics. It's in the implementation of them that I run into problems. [:'(]
lol....you might change your tune once BB West Virginia bombards your base at Rabaul before it becomes operational. [:D] or better....if the player places some old BB's in it's CV TF in order to soak off some bombers.
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:11 pm
by Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: KDonovan
Hawker, I agree with you but I'd say the max rang is 10-11 hexes from Kwajalein (max torp range for the Betty/Nell). Anything beyond that and they'll carry bombs which will just bounce off the BBs.
i thought its 15 hexes for torpedo range (in stock), 10-11 if you want Zero's to escort. But if its just BB's the Betty's don't need to worry about escorts
That sounds right. All I can remember right now is that it's something less than max range.
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:13 pm
by Nikademus
at greater than 10 hexes, it's not likely a surface force will be attacked, dependant on it's size and other variables.
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:14 pm
by Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: hawker
Mike,i think that max torp. range for betty is 15 hex as Donovan says.
Hey Nik,you talk just like great marshall Zhukov[;)]
As i said,POW is much greater treat than PH BB in any way.
Yup, you're right Hawker.
What did Stalin (I think) say? "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:14 pm
by Speedysteve
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
Quantity has a quality all it's own.
Spaceba Comrade Stalin,
Did you get my turns dumass (note intentional mistake[;)])? If so where are they????[:@]
[:'(]
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:22 pm
by Nikademus
I wasn't able to do any turns over the weekend or yesterday due to work on NM. Sacrifices have to be made mister.....besides i figured you needed the break from the ass whuppin. Maybe you can sit down now for the next turn.
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:34 pm
by hawker
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: hawker
Mike,i think that max torp. range for betty is 15 hex as Donovan says.
Hey Nik,you talk just like great marshall Zhukov[;)]
As i said,POW is much greater treat than PH BB in any way.
Yup, you're right Hawker.
What did Stalin (I think) say? "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."
True[8D]
Soyooz nerooshimi respooblik svobodnikh
Splotila naveki velikaia Rus
Da zdravstvooyet sozdanni voley narodov
Yedini mogoochi Sovetski Soyooz
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:38 pm
by Speedysteve
Da.............
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:42 pm
by DuckofTindalos
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ORIGINAL: hawker
Hey Nik,you talk just like great marshall Zhukov[;)]
As i said,POW is much greater treat than PH BB in any way.
Indeed....i'm awesome at talking tactics.
You're awesome at talking bollocks...[:'(]
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:44 pm
by hawker
...zdravstvooyet sozdanni voley narodov...[;)]
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:50 pm
by Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Terminus
You're awesome at talking bollocks...[:'(]
I'm also awesome at SPAM detection.... [:'(]
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:17 pm
by DuckofTindalos
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Terminus
You're awesome at talking bollocks...[:'(]
I'm also awesome at SPAM detection.... [:'(]
Nope, you're not...[:'(]
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:52 pm
by Speedysteve
ORIGINAL: hawker
...zdravstvooyet sozdanni voley narodov...[;)]
[:'(]
Smirt[;)]
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:53 pm
by Speedysteve
ORIGINAL: Terminus
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Terminus
You're awesome at talking bollocks...[:'(]
I'm also awesome at SPAM detection.... [:'(]
Nope, you're not...[:'(]
[:D]
RE: Has anyone ever hit Manila for Opener?
Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:55 am
by Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Terminus
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Terminus
You're awesome at talking bollocks...[:'(]
I'm also awesome at SPAM detection.... [:'(]
Nope, you're not...[:'(]
<SNIFF!>
smells like SPAM to me!