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A third US carrier, the Saratoga was also steaming up from the west coast to assist. The problem was, as you said, a severe case of "yellow fever" at CINCPAC. This is why I am so pi$$ed off about the changes that were made to nearly drop Wake Is into the Japanese hands on turn 1.

I think I'll be editing that particular TF in the historical start oob.

My $.02 worth. Since the mobile fleet actually started from a naval ancorage in the kirul islands, i have always edited the ships for the mobile fleet and a replenishment fleet into what is now uruppo(sp?) plus 1000 oil and 1000 supplies. This makes it possible for all 6 carriers to attack PH and is very historic.

The PH strike force also sailed on nov 25th which is before the Pacwar game starts.

Hi, while the Historic first turn should not see Wake Island fall (as is now is the case) This should only be in the human Japanese OB the AI Japanese needs as much help as it can get and it often just ignores Wake Island forever. Human Allies who are playing Human Japanese using non historic first turns will have to accept the fact one of the reasons Human Japanese players want non historic first turns is to fix what they consider mistakes made in the actual event. I always make sure to capture Wake as soon as possible. (I send a Bde not a Bn, I also send TF's to bombard) The defense Bn there always puts up a good fight but I just make sure it is hopeless and pay the price. (The Bde gets chewed up) I think the current set up is about the best we can expect from the game given the problems with the AI. Personaly I think the OB's should be set up for 2 humans so if Japan uses historical first turn he does not capture Wake on turn 1 (the human will already have a plan to capture Wake for real on turn 2 or 3) But if the human is playing Japanese AI Japan should capture Wake on turn 1)(Japanese AI drives me spastic already with the way it does things, don't make it worse) <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]</p>

I'm baffled why everyone is so concerned about Wake Island. It's only a level 2 airfield. My primary targets are those that can field tactical bombers. In a non-historical first move as the Japanese commander, I send a division of troops based in Tokyo (the 16th Div?) via Tokyo Express to assault Midway. The assault is always successful and I now have a forward base for Bettys. If the Allies try to reinforce Wake, bombers from Midway and Kwajalein take a heavy toll. Also, I've found that control of Midway drives the Allied AI nuts. I've entrenched 3 divisions of experienced troops there under Horii and let the Allied AI keep landing troops on the beaches, where they are promptly slaughtered, even if the Allies pound the hell out of it first with air and naval bombardment. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Hi, most human versus human games have a house rule that limits the amount of infantry that can be based on a level 1 terrian (atoll) I usally use 1 division or equal smaller units with defense BN (NGU) and engineers not counting against maxium. Grabbing Midway does make the AI crazy, but human Allies really like the Jap to grab Midway. After the Allies build their Airbases they can train airgroups alot easier with Midway for a target. (3 div is 36k troops they would be stacked on each others shouders on Midway) <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

The reason why I'm all steamed up about Wake Is, is because it was the LAST time an invasion attempt was beated off by a defending ground force. and if the US brass in Pearh Harbour hadn't gotten a case of "yellow fever" in Dec 1941, ithe Japanese second attempt to capture it would have also been a failure.

to hand it over the the Japanese AI because the AI will tend to ignore it (I agree it seems to do so), without the US opponent having anything to say about it is just plain wrong. The initial under manned attempt should be coded, then if necessary, a follow up TF (starting on turn 1, if it needs to for control purposes) that is sailing from far enough away to make the arrival of the second attempt on turn 3 should be the way to handle it. That way, a USN player if he is so inclined can make an issue out of it.

Yes Wake starts out as a level 2 airfield, but with expansion it can go to level 4.

What ever happenned to the "increased strength" thattom said he was going to make of the various US Marine DEF Bns???

Originally posted by Mike Santos:
The reason why I'm all steamed up about Wake Is, is because it was the LAST time an invasion attempt was beated off by a defending ground force. and if the US brass in Pearh Harbour hadn't gotten a case of "yellow fever" in Dec 1941, ithe Japanese second attempt to capture it would have also been a failure.

to hand it over the the Japanese AI because the AI will tend to ignore it (I agree it seems to do so), without the US opponent having anything to say about it is just plain wrong. The initial under manned attempt should be coded, then if necessary, a follow up TF (starting on turn 1, if it needs to for control purposes) that is sailing from far enough away to make the arrival of the second attempt on turn 3 should be the way to handle it. That way, a USN player if he is so inclined can make an issue out of it.

Yes Wake starts out as a level 2 airfield, but with expansion it can go to level 4.

What ever happenned to the "increased strength" thattom said he was going to make of the various US Marine DEF Bns???

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Well, if you really look at what the USN had to offer at this time in the central pacific, it was the USS Saratoga. What did the IJN have? The Hiryu and Soryu, plus Kwajalien and Enewietok. Wake Island was not a Midway Island, in that it was not sufficiently developed to hold off against a concerted invasion attempt. The US command in the Pacific knew that if they comitted the Saratoga to the battle for Wake Island, that it would most likely be lost. Chances are, it would have (if it was against 2 carriers and LBA G3M and G4M bombers). The reinforcement TF could only have packed on a few hundred more Marines (vs. a HEAVILY reinforced SNLF contingent) and replacement aircraft bringing the strength up to around 16 again (vs. innumerable IJAAF LBA). I would hardly say that the USN were acting "yellow", just not recklessly.

The forces that Kaijioka had to take Wake Island were pathetically small. Some Old CL's and DD's and smaller land force then defending force. If he had not lost those 2 DD's, then the disaster on the ground would have been much worse. However, when the 2nd invasion attempt occurred (and there was NO way the Japanese would have left Wake Island in the hands of the USMC) their forces met the task at hand, and even if the US resupply TF arrived, all that would have happened was a greater number of US Marines in Japanese POW camps.

I was of 2 minds to have the Wake Invasion TF be a Transport or Bombardment TF. Since coastal artillery CANNOT be modeled, there would be no way in accurately stopping the weak IJN TF by Wake's 5" coastal guns. However, the IJN didn't land on their first attempt. Should they NEVER land? It is hard to say. Since Wake Island in 1941 IS an insignificant attack (taking the island 1-2 turns before it historically was is less of a problem then it never falling) it falling a few turns earlier will not change the course of the war.

USMC Defence battalions have been increased in strength (except for the Wake Island Bn, which never had AFV's) Each Bn has 36 Squads, 18 Artillery and 8 AFV.