Matrix Games Forums

My idea for a perfect wargame would be a cross between the Steel Panters series and TOAOW. You would start off with a screen with TOAW where you would deploy brigade, divisional and corps size units. Then when these units become engaged with the enemy you would have the option to play in this scale or go to another screen and conduct combat at the Steel Panter's scale. In the Steel Panther's screen you would be able to deploy the same amount that you can now in SPMBT/or about a brigades worth. What do you guys think of this idea?

ORIGINAL: Randy

My idea for a perfect wargame would be a cross between the Steel Panters series and TOAOW. You would start off with a screen with TOAW where you would deploy brigade, divisional and corps size units. Then when these units become engaged with the enemy you would have the option to play in this scale or go to another screen and conduct combat at the Steel Panter's scale. In the Steel Panther's screen you would be able to deploy the same amount that you can now in SPMBT/or about a brigades worth. What do you guys think of this idea?

That would be great but would make scenarios like EA or FitE totally unplayable [:D]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Boonierat

Nah, it's called TOAW IV, and you should already be working on it [;)]

Who said we weren't?

Of course, if we were, I couldn't tell you about it, and if I could tell you about it, I wouldn't, and if I did, it would be in person, you'd be swept for bugs, mikes, and recorders, it'd be by the faintest whisper, my overgrown moustache hiding my lip movement, on a moonless night, and I'd publically disavow any confirmation of the conversation that never happened...[:-]

..you forgot, and it may have or not, elephants...

..[8D]

ORIGINAL: Boonierat

ORIGINAL: Randy

My idea for a perfect wargame would be a cross between the Steel Panters series and TOAOW. You would start off with a screen with TOAW where you would deploy brigade, divisional and corps size units. Then when these units become engaged with the enemy you would have the option to play in this scale or go to another screen and conduct combat at the Steel Panter's scale. In the Steel Panther's screen you would be able to deploy the same amount that you can now in SPMBT/or about a brigades worth. What do you guys think of this idea?

That would be great but would make scenarios like EA or FitE totally unplayable [:D]

...especially since to alot of us, those games are already unplayable (unless I quit my job/family/life)[:D]

Does anyone know why Steel Panthers III did not do well? I just reloaded it and I like the idea. Other than the fact that it has a dated game engine, and does not have mobhack to make adjustments. I think that if it had the capability of SPWAW/SPMBT it would be a great game. What do you guys think?

ORIGINAL: TPM

ORIGINAL: Graymane

My biggest knock against taking HOI seriously as a war game (it is a great strategy game though) is that all the units are generic. It is much more risk-like than anything else.

Not sure what you mean by this...there are a million different units in HOI aren't there? Mountain divisions, paratroopers, light tanks, etc. The game has some flaws, but I don't think "simple", which could be used to define Risk, is one of them. Or maybe you mean that the German infantry should have different characteristics then the Russian, etc.? Kind of like Starcraft, etc.?

Yes, there are different kinds of units. The problem is that a Germany inf div is the same as a French is the same as a Liberian one is the same as a Mongolian one =) The only diff being what techs you research to change the modifiers. What you cannot model is types of equipment or size (well, you can mod some of this). I don't use the comparision to Risk in a bad way, just making a point that with a game on the strategic scale, you tend to focus on other things besides combat. When you play HOI, you win at the strategic level (production mainly) by picking the right kinds of units. Tactics and operations for all sides look essentially the same. Everyone can do deep encirclements and have fast armor spearheads, for example.

ORIGINAL: Widell

ORIGINAL: Graymane
@ Widell Hmm..that link don't work for me.

Strange, site is definitely up and running. Maybe another try later on?

It is the underscore in the URL. What is the IP addie?

ORIGINAL: Randy

Does anyone know why Steel Panthers III did not do well? I just reloaded it and I like the idea. Other than the fact that it has a dated game engine, and does not have mobhack to make adjustments. I think that if it had the capability of SPWAW/SPMBT it would be a great game. What do you guys think?

For me, it was mainly burn-out. I played a lot of the first one, and there just wasn't enough new to make me get into it that deep again.

If anyone has interest in something like this, shoot me a PM. I was jotting down some ideas and it seems to be reasonable on the difficulty level.

Games are usually either high level or low level and I want something that does both. I think something like it would be very well, at least as a free piece of software.

I just don't think games combining tactical, operational and (even) strategic levels really 'work' even if somebody could do a better job of it than they have so far. If you are hankering for a strategic game the need to drop to the tactical level is just an annoyance - you want to get on to the next turn of the 'big picture', not faff about with that. Sure, it could be optional, but then whats the point? If you want a tactical game you would rather just be playing one and creating historical engagement, or just particularly interesting, scenarios rather than playing endless pseudo-random ones.

My perfect wargame? Either the perfect tactical game or the perfect operational level game. Either is more than enough and would get played a lot more than some hybrid. I like rhinobones idea about designers choice between WEGO and IGOUGO, it would be nice to see that implemented in an operational level game if, and only if, both were implemented to the 'perfect' standard we are fantasing about. I'd prefer continuous/pausible time for a tactical game.

Granted it is GAMEY, but the total war franchise, one of the all time leaders in the industry.. combines 4x strategy and drop down into real time conflict.. granted it is GAMEY.. but fun for myself and others.
I do not loike real time.. EVER so for me to say this is really pushing it, other exceiption was HTTR, did not get COTA as no interst in the area, but if we saw free developement the engine is a good one imo.. and could be used along a with a strategic engine .. perhpas changing hte scale as well. my 2.38 cents worth