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RE: ground attack help
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:58 pm
by Chad Harrison
ORIGINAL: tanksone
ORIGINAL: Chad Harrison
ORIGINAL: irrelevant
That's right. Two kinds of engineers, combat engineers and construction engineers. If it says "engineer squad", it's a construction engineer. For IJA, the combat engineers are "IJA engineer squad." Don't know what they are in the USA/USMC. Probably something similar though.
It says the same thing, just BLANK Engineer Squad, where blank is USA, USMC, ANZAC, ect.
I am still curious though, unless I am missing something, I only see three USA 'combat engineer' units (the three that start on the West Coast). So as the Allied player are you stuck relying on using the integral engineer squads in a unit? The Marines have an impressive number, but everyone else leaves much to be desired.
Chad
Hi, there is also one in the Phillipine Islands at the begining of the war which one could withdraw I believe.
Yup, I just noticed that one and another one which starts the game (stock, sc. 15) at Pearl, and a couple for the Russians.
So the total 'combat engineer' units for the US player all start onmap, with one in the Phillipines, one at Pearl Harbour, and three on the West Coast. Five total.
If you save the one in the Phillipines, and used them all together, that would be 135 (27 per unit) USA Engineer Squads. Thats more than are included in one, full strength USMC division. So not so bad if you reserve them for later in the game when those extra 100 or so squads really adds up.
Chad
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:30 pm
by niceguy2005
ORIGINAL: tabpub
Niceguy; it was Harrison that mentioned March '42, not the thread starter. 'sides, it would take the player mismatch of the century to land 5 supported divisions on Saipan in 3/42...
Ah, right you are. Yes, Saipan by March 42 would be a miracle and a half.
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:31 pm
by niceguy2005
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
I'd suggest landing an additional HQ....their effects are cumulative up to a point.
I did not know this...care to elaborate? Do they need to be command or corp HQ or will any old additional HQ do?
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:46 pm
by Halsey
1.Theatre
2.Army
3.Corps
This is the chain of command for the bonus.
Three possible.
How long have you been playing this game?[:D]
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:05 pm
by niceguy2005
ORIGINAL: Halsey
1.Theatre
2.Army
3.Corps
This is the chain of command for the bonus.
Three possible.
How long have you been playing this game?[:D]
This is the first I have heard of this. The game does so little with chain of command I had just assumed that a ground HQ was a ground HQ.
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:42 pm
by Halsey
Well, who says you can't teach an ole dog new tricks.[:D]
They don't even have to have the same command.
They just need to be within command range, and prepped for the same target.[;)]
This is the major reason for failings in ground attacks against bases.
This has to be done to maximise your LCU's AV's.[;)]
I usually have a Corps and the Army HQ's in the attacking hex, for the extra support points.
The Theatre HQ should be in a close base hex within command range of the other two HQ's.
That way the Theatre HQ will pull supplies there to support your attack.[;)]
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:06 am
by niceguy2005
ORIGINAL: Halsey
Well, who says you can't teach an ole dog new tricks.[:D]
They don't even have to have the same command.
They just need to be within command range, and prepped for the same target.[;)]
This is the major reason for failings in ground attacks against bases.
This has to be done to maximise your LCU's AV's.[;)]
I usually have a Corps and the Army HQ's in the attacking hex, for the extra support points.
The Theatre HQ should be in a close base hex within command range of the other two HQ's.
That way the Theatre HQ will pull supplies there to support your attack.[;)]
Interesting. Someone should post this somewhere useful, since I am doubting its in the manual.
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:20 am
by alaviner
Its in the manuel but not nearly as well said [&o]
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:08 am
by Halsey
To get the entire bonus in non-base hexes put all three HQ's in the same hex.
Of course prep points mean squat in this situation.[:D]
I usually put only a Corps and an Army HQ in the non-base hex though.
The Theatre HQ is really needed to pull supplies forward.[;)]
Japanese HQ's are misnamed, so go with their range rating.
True Japanese Army HQ's have a range of 6, which means 5 hexes, I believe.
While their true Corps HQ's have a range of 1, which means 0 hexes.
Supposedly they will operate at 50% effectiveness at twice the range.
This I can't verify.
Better to have the Corps and the Army HQ in the actual hex anyway, for the support points.
The Allied HQ's are easier to discern.
BTW, put GOOD officers in command of these HQ's.
This is extremely important.[;)]
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:18 am
by jwilkerson
ORIGINAL: Halsey
To get the entire bonus in non-base hexes put all three HQ's in the same hex.
Of course prep points mean squat in this situation.[:D]
I usually put only a Corps and an Army HQ in the non-base hex though.
The Theatre HQ is really needed to pull supplies forward.[;)]
Japanese HQ's are misnamed, so go with their range rating.
True Japanese Army HQ's have a range of 6, which means 5 hexes, I believe.
While their true Corps HQ's have a range of 1, which means 0 hexes.
Supposedly they will operate at 50% effectiveness at twice the range.
This I can't verify.
Better to have the Corps and the Army HQ in the actual hex anyway, for the support points.
The Allied HQ's are easier to discern.
BTW, put GOOD officers in command of these HQ's.
This is extremely important.[;)]
I won't bore you with the details [;)] but the higher two levels of HQ do not have to be in the same hex as the battle. They can be, but they don't have to be. Also a "good" leader in these cases is one with a high "Land" rating.
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:28 am
by Halsey
This I know.[:D]
I like the extra support in the hex to restore disabled squads.[;)]
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:07 am
by Halsey
So JW, as an insider.[;)]
Will the HQ bonus apply to combat in non-base hexes, if the HQ units are not actually in the hex?
So far I haven't seen this to be the case.
It seems to only affect combat in base hexes.
This is the main reason that I include the supporting HQ's in the actual non-base combat.
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:22 am
by 1EyedJacks
ORIGINAL: stretch
I need advice on how to improve my situation....
landed 5, count em 5, full divisions on Saipan, along with 2 RCT's.
bombarded with an multi-BB TF every turn for 10 turns (2 of them taking turns when one needs to replenish)
attacked ground troops with 100+ bombers for over 20 consecutive turns (from Guam)
a mountain of supplies is present with the troops
there is an HQ on the ground with 100 turns of prep for Saipan
there are adequate base forces for support
there is a combat engineer regiment
ive checked all the leaders and made them all as good as I can
and yet...
Ground combat at Saipan
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 81397 troops, 897 guns, 13 vehicles, Assault Value = 2071
Defending force 73188 troops, 585 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 1177
Allied max assault: 1204 - adjusted assault: 663
Japanese max defense: 923 - adjusted defense: 4813
Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 9)
Japanese ground losses:
248 casualties reported
Guns lost 8
Allied ground losses:
1807 casualties reported
Guns lost 50
even if my adjusted assault were my full assault, until I bring down the Japanese adjusted assault I'm not going to make any headway agasinst those nine fort levels.
What next ?
Bomb the living daylights out of his airbase. He's got engineers - right? They've gotta do base repairs. Base repairs eat up supplies. When his troops are low on supplies their fighting ablilty goes down the dump. Also, your engineers will really start whittling away on those forts once Siapan supplies are kaput. Siege warfare - sorry - it takes time. Sapping enemy moral and causing disruption are tools to capture the base also. A lot of good advice on how to cause disruption and using HQs already posted. Most of all tho - have fun!
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:59 am
by Sardaukar
Besides..no amphibious operaton of this scale facing such resistance was over overnight in WWII Pacific anyway... It takes time..realistically so too.
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:11 pm
by tsimmonds
ORIGINAL: stretch
I need advice on how to improve my situation....
landed 5, count em 5, full divisions on Saipan, along with 2 RCT's.
bombarded with an multi-BB TF every turn for 10 turns (2 of them taking turns when one needs to replenish)
attacked ground troops with 100+ bombers for over 20 consecutive turns (from Guam)
a mountain of supplies is present with the troops
there is an HQ on the ground with 100 turns of prep for Saipan
there are adequate base forces for support
there is a combat engineer regiment
ive checked all the leaders and made them all as good as I can
and yet...
BTW, ground support air strikes mostly cause disruption and fatigue but very few disablements. Disruption is a short term effect, if the disrupted unit is just sitting in the hex doing nothing, it will recover from the disruption very quickly. Also, a ground support air strike only affects a single LCU. Doing it turn after turn is not nearly as effective as you might think. I only use ground support strikes in conjunction with an assault
in the same turn; it is most useful in causing an incremental reduction of the defenders AV. For the turns in between assaults during which I am resting my LCU, I do airfield strikes to burn enemy supply and keep his engineers from building forts....
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:23 pm
by niceguy2005
Thanks jwilkerson and Halsey, this is why I still hang around this forum, even after 2 years. I am still learning new things...or sometimes learning things I had forgotten.
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:59 pm
by Halsey
No problem.[;)]
You had a good question, that the "manual" really doesn't explain properly.
Others ask questions that ARE covered in the manual.
To those I say, READ THE MANUAL!!![:D][;)]
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:34 pm
by Nikademus
ORIGINAL: niceguy2005
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
I'd suggest landing an additional HQ....their effects are cumulative up to a point.
I did not know this...care to elaborate? Do they need to be command or corp HQ or will any old additional HQ do?
It can be pretty much any type of land HQ though you'd not want to put a command HQ on any front line because you don't have too. (they have far greater range.) I've tested up to 3 corp HQ's in the same hex and while there is the usual level of variability, their effects were noticeable. A command HQ can be part of this chain while not being in the hex. For example i noted the adjusted AV (Assault value) for an LCU just by being in the range of Burma Area Army in one test.
Another important HQ type essential for AmphibAssault is the US "Amphibious" HQ. Load that on it's command ship and ensure it's present in the invasion hex when you land. It helps reduce landing disablements and gives you more workable AV from the get go.
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:10 pm
by Halsey
Does this work in non-base combat?
Or does the requirement only recognize prepped bases?
Had to ask this Nik, before Termitus starts spaming the thread.[;)][:D]
RE: ground attack help
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:20 pm
by Nikademus
the HQ bonus to AV is separate from prep points so it works in non base hexes as well as base hexes. PP's also increase the LCU's effectivenes and PP's from both an HQ and the LCU itself will help modify the AV as will leader stats.