Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
As to the editor - It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth that it seems players won't get access to at least some of the powerful database editors as part of an effort to prevent others misrepresenting others work as theirs. It seems to penalise the many for the sins of the few. OTOH I doubt I'll bother much with database editing so it is less of a practical point and more of a philosophical point for me.

Nemo, don't give to this issue too much importance. Not all the calls of "plagiarism" that you hear out there are grounded on facts, and actually most of them (the loudest, usually [;)]) have no grounds at all. This is, at least, what some basic research regarding what is considered "plagiarism" in the real world shows (I did it for unrelated, professional reasons, since I'm bot working in the videogaming field and a published comic-book author, but of course I took opportunity to check upon things related to our hobby, too). Just look at the kind of work done on DBs for games ranging from WitP to TOAW, as a serene, common effort and for the benefit of all, and you will see how many of the howls you hear over here, in the Harpoon community, do seem to stem more from personal issues than from factual truths.

Beside, since we all hope that "no one is guilty until proven othervise", I don't think that new players should be bothered by the alleged "sins of the eldest" )

3.6.x was the last version of Harpoon for a long time, so some DB designers were able to "creatively" circumvent the issues in that game by tayloring the DBs around them. Not everybody is happy about how (and the fact that) the game evolved, but Dale is right in saying that ANW is now the "live and growing" version of H3. Just think about multiplayer!
True, as ironic as it may seem, fixing some issues caused the need to rewrite parts of the unofficial Dbs which had grown "around" 3.6.x. Some DB writers did or are doing that - others, maybe, find it a lot of work for what they do not feel is a sufficient payoff. So they call for 3.6.x to remain as an "alternative". This may be true, and maybe they where happier when 3.6.x ruled and their DB was the lone king of the hill... but it is still a personal call by the Db designer - which may be heeded by the player or not. [:)]

Anyway, regarding the bugs in ANW and 3.6.x, the lists are public since a long time. You can find them, for example, at

ANW 3.7.0: http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/harpoon ... ssues.html
H3 3.6.x: http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/harpoon ... ssues.html

In the same forums you will find more discussion about the various incarnation of Harpoon, with some different and, IMHO, refreshing and useful views on the running debate. My personal one is "ditch 3.6.x and go with ANW - maybe after asking about some more info around if you are unsure of the current level of the software". This is what I did, and I'm an happy harpooner.

Regards,

Vincenzo

[Deleted by Admins]

Vincenzo makes some great points.

The DB plagiarism issue always seemed odd to me. The capabilities of an Arleigh Burke Flight IIA DDG are the same no matter who entered the data, so I don't know how you could call it plagiarism when another DB uses the same data. Don't get me wrong - I fully realize the difficulties behind obtaining accurate data and the hours of work required to get that data and those who put those hours in should be recognized.

ANW as a "live and growing" version is a good description. There are countless games out there that issue patches only to counter game-stopping crashes and could care less about added functionality and features until they're ready to issue the next $50 incarnation.

My take is that if you want something entertaining for now, then 3.6 would do it for you, but if you want something more than that - something that will last for years, get ANW - you won't be sorry.

Mark D.

The DB plagiarising is now officially accepted fact:fb.asp?m=1397134

It is the belief of several published database developers I have talked to that plagiarism has occurred.  There were enough unique items to the source database that appeared in the plagiarized database (and some Scenarios) that there is little likelihood of co-incidence.  Due to the realities of the internet, and international parties there is little we can do about the situation except ensure that those we suspect of such behavior do not bear the mark of "Team Harpoon Content Provider".   If they were to come clean, apologize, and make amends, the Membership Committee will reconsider.

Of course, contrarian minds are allowed their opinion. Even those best suited for membership to the Flat Earth Society. Or trolls who post only in order to get a rise out of others. Or to start flamewars and then boast publicly about it.

To answer your question, Nemo, this was one of the prime reasons  that certain conditions now exist for obtaining some of the more useful editing tools. As long as you don't involve yourself in any objectionable activities you should have no problems whatsoever in getting access to the tools you need to make the most out of Harpoon. You will also find that the vast majority of designers are very helpful and cooperative towards both new and old players alike. To get a taste of how scenarios are submitted and peer-reviewed by fellow Pooners before being published, you are welcome to the Scenario Testing Ground at the HarpoonHQ.

ORIGINAL: NEC1163

The DB plagiarism issue always seemed odd to me. The capabilities of an Arleigh Burke Flight IIA DDG are the same no matter who entered the data, so I don't know how you could call it plagiarism when another DB uses the same data. Don't get me wrong - I fully realize the difficulties behind obtaining accurate data and the hours of work required to get that data and those who put those hours in should be recognized.

I've had a couple of people contact me and explain some things to me so I'd like to clarify and amend my statement.

The data in the DB (missile range, sensor types, etc.) certainly isn't IP, but the body of work known as the DB itself certainly is. The immense number of hours that went into assembling that body of work can't be understated and those responsible for it need to be recognized. The laws concerning copyrights clearly include this type of compilation.

To those of you out there who I may have upset, I apologize.

Mark D.

[Deleted by Admins]

So to get back on track. Is there somewhere with a list of the problems to be solved with 3.7 etc and a MATRIX priority list.

[Deleted by Admins]

We're also working on some Pro work but I can't talk about that.

My name is Bond, James Bond.........[:D]

ORIGINAL: Taitennek

We're also working on some Pro work but I can't talk about that.

My name is Bond, James Bond.........[:D]

Frans, you are mixing up avatars AGAIN [:D]

[Deleted by Admins]

ORIGINAL: VCDH

Well you know what they say....

I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you [8D]

Later
D

Would a 6-pack Grolsch beer help?[:D]

[Deleted by Admins]

Hi Guys,
I just got back from some travels.  So, I take it 3.8 is out?
Is there some place you can direct me to soI can catch up (quickly) on what I've missed?
Thanks in advance ...
---------------------------------------------
Ignore the above ... I found what I was looking for.

ORIGINAL: VCDH

ORIGINAL: Taitennek
Would a 6-pack Grolsch beer help?[:D]

That's actually not a bad brand of beer....

A Canadian who knows good beer? Huh? Oh crap I have had to many of the bugers...[&o][:D]

No, 3.8 is still only a beta. But you can download it from the members section.