Matrix Games Forums

Nik, the damage report states the following-
"From reference (f), however, it appears that the majority of the hits were from AP projectiles. Reference (f) reported that the Japanese used a fuze with a time delay of 0.4 seconds. In the 8 inch and larger projectiles a time delay of 0.08 seconds.....Because of this long time delay, most projectiles passed through the superstructure without detonating"

It also states that in comparison - the US fuzed their AP 8" and above shells to 0.035 seconds.

Thx MS.....unfortunately that doesn't help in regards to the 14inch shell, if it was an AP.

The reports states the following regarding Hit 26

"An estimated 14-inch projectile passed through both sides of the coaming of hatch 1-128 and detonated upon hitting the barbette of turret III at frame 123.5 about 17 inches from the top. the 17.5 inch armor was gouged to a depth of abot 1.5 inches over an area of 15 inches"......"Some difficulty was experinced in training the turret after the hit but it was believed that the turret was still able to fire"

There is no mention in the report of what type of 14 inch shell it was....but IMO I think it was an HE shell.....[;)]

Yes, hence my question to Herr Tiornu and my interest in the AoI + any other details. Gazarke also contains a decent detailed description of each hit on SoDak on a hit per hit basis.

Found another picture of the infamous 14" shell hit (hit #26)....[;)]

Nik, some more info.....looking at the CA San francisco's damage report from the previous night.....she was hit by 14" shells from one of the Jap BBs....quote from the report -
"The nature of the 14" projectiles which struck the San Francisco is of intrest in connection with the fires. Reference (c) reports that the fragments recovered from the 14 inchers. They were of incendiary type with a heavy base and 3/8" walls. the cavity was apparntly filled with an explosive charge and a large number of small(3" x 1") saftey fused incendiary cylinders filled with powdered aluminum and magnesium. Apparently the explosive charge detonates sets safety fuses afire, and scatters incendiary cylinders over a wide area. This started fires in many inaccessable places. There was no evidence of a base plug, and it is probable that the projectile had a nose fuse with a fuse adapter for nose loading. The 5" S.T.S. barbette armor defeated them easily. It was fortunate for the San Francisco that neither of these shells was armor piercing"

FYI

Looking at the last picture of the 14" hit on the SD...it seems to me that there was alot of heat on the 2nd deck....caused by an incendiary shell?.....who knows, I am still sticking with my opinion that she was struck by a HE shell....did the Kirshima have time to reload 14" AP shells into her magazines in that short of time period between battles or were the HE shells the right weapon to use against CAs, CLs and destroyers if they were present during the airfield bombardment mission and not expecting to meet 2 American BBs......

The G&D drawing and survey is basically a copy of the one Minesweeper posted above.
The hits on San Fran don't have much to say about SoDak's experience since probably all of San Fran's hits were Type 3's.
The armor which Kirishima's shell hit is considerably greater than caliber-thick for a 14in shell. Penetration of face-hardened armor was not a forte of the Type 91. In other instances, Japanese shells exploded prematurely due to their sensitive burster. I don't think that's the case here, but it could be.

I remembered one other possible factor in the failure to penetrate the barbette. The Japanese had three propellant ratings. Gunnery training and bombardment duties might involve weaker charges meant to prolong barrel life. That does not appear to apply here, however--the fact that the shell could penetrate the hatch coaming and still hit the barbette a foot and a half above the deck indicates a very shallow descent angle.
Kirishima had time to fire all three types if shells against SoDak. The barbette came at the very end of the engagement, after Kiri had switch totally over to AP.

ORIGINAL: Tiornu


Kirishima had time to fire all three types if shells against SoDak.

What I mean't was, did she have time at base (Rabaul) in between the battles to reload AP shells....or if that was not on agenda - just use what was stocked in her (HE Shells)

Hi Nik,

Here's the official US Navy report compiled after the war:

BB57 Battle Damage

Chez

Kirishima was carrying Type 3 IS, Type 0 HE, and Type 91 AP. She fired some of each. As her later salvoes were AP, I might guess she fired the other types only while they were in the hoists. In other words, she switched to AP as soon as she could.

Okay.....the infamous 14" shell hit will still be a mystery I guess[;)] but I still think that a 14" AP shell would have taken out more than 1.5" chunk of armor from the turret barbette IMO.....

But what makes this unique is this one hit, was the only large caliber Japanese BB shell to hit an Allied Battleship in all of the Pacific War.....[;)]

(the Pearl Harbor Kate delivered 16" shells don't count)[:-]

Boise's 5in belt and 6.5in faceplate both defeated short-range 8in hits with little more than scratches. This makes it easy for me to imagine a 14in shell's defeat by a super-caliber plate.

Correct....by all means......[:)] but the 14" shell did not penatrate the 17" armor on the barbette of the SD....1.5 inch gouge in the 17inch. plating was destroyed....hence an HE Shell hit this fine BB......but we are talking about one 14 inch shell (the only large caliber shell to hit any allied BB in th entire pacific war)....so I stick to my guns on the type of shell to hit the SD......[;)] and I am being a sob on this......[;)] I enjoy the topic