Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Terminus
The worst thing is, some newbie might believe he actually has any official clout around these here parts...[8|]

As a newbie, I might comment that's not what I understood? I interpreted it as "given good data, the programmers may choose to use it". Which seems reasonable and in my head doesn't imply any influence by the modder, nor commitment by the game devs.

Making too much of it perhaps? But I guess I've walked into an old argument...

an argument? no. I'd consider it a clarification....and that clarification is that Sid has no connection, official or semi-official with Matrix or the developers as Andrew pointed out, and i've known all along from my past association with Matrix. As a modder he's free to do what he wants with his mod and change whatever data he wants......whether or not Matrix wishes to use his data (or any other mod'ers) is up to matrix. This is not the first time he's implied a connection or inside knowledge to back up his opinions.

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

an argument? no. I'd consider it a clarication....and that clarification is that Sid has no connection, official or semi-official with Matrix or the developers as Andrew pointed out, and i've known all along from my past association with Matrix. As a modder he's free to do what he wants with his mod and change whatever data he wants......whether or not Matrix wishes to use his data (or any other mod'ers) is up to matrix.

Which is kind of what I inferred from his posts that I've read so far (other than whatever exchange of information is needed to make a major mod work). I was just observing from a walk on third party perspective that things don't seem quite as manipulative as you make out (or they were just unsuccessfully so). So like most internet disputes I assume there's some history, which I'd probably rather not know. Sorry to have prolonged the discussion. [>:]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

an argument? no. I'd consider it a clarification....and that clarification is that Sid has no connection, official or semi-official with Matrix or the developers as Andrew pointed out, and i've known all along from my past association with Matrix. As a modder he's free to do what he wants with his mod and change whatever data he wants......whether or not Matrix wishes to use his data (or any other mod'ers) is up to matrix. This is not the first time he's implied a connection or inside knowledge to back up his opinions.

This is thing is really a bore.  What the hell difference does it make what Sid said, or if he lied or not.   Get real this is not to the level of the Imus comment.  You guys want Sid fired, sorry he's not being paid for all his contributions (I think), nor are you other modders (I think).  This is just ego issue and all you combatants (Sid included) are in a "my thing is bigger than your thing" fight.  Lots of good ideas and information have been produced by you all so give it a rest and get back to the damn game.

Don't want Sid fired, I want him to stop lying...

You guys want Sid fired, sorry he's not being paid for all his contributions (I think), nor are you other modders (I think).

 

How can you fire someone from purchasing, owning, playing or modding WitP? As I said, he's free to do whatever he wants with his mod. Thats not the issue...never was.....its when a person starts trying to add weight to their opinion or view by implying something that isn't true....then thats a problem in my book, same as when someone attempts to present a distortion on the regular forum regarding a historical subject.

And if he don't (if it is a lie or a prefabrication) , then what will you do? Hope you don't hold your breath and turn blue.

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

You guys want Sid fired, sorry he's not being paid for all his contributions (I think), nor are you other modders (I think).

 

How can you fire someone from purchasing, owning, playing or modding WitP?

Uh, that was a cause and effect association with the Imus current event (happening here in the U.S.), not to be implied that you really could fire him or stop him for that matter. As to the other comments, as I asked Terminus "And if he don't (if it is a lie or a prefabrication) , then what will you do? Hope you don't hold your breath and turn blue. "

You guys might try having him banned from the forum. Such a noble cause!!

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

You guys want Sid fired, sorry he's not being paid for all his contributions (I think), nor are you other modders (I think).

 

How can you fire someone from purchasing, owning, playing or modding WitP?

Uh, that was a cause and effect association with the Imus current event (happening here in the U.S.), not to be implied that you really could fire him or stop him for that matter. As to the other comments, as I asked Terminus "And if he don't (if it is a lie or a prefabrication) , then what will you do? Hope you don't hold your breath and turn blue. "

You guys might try having him banned from the forum. Such a noble cause!!

Or maybe they could take their quarrels off the forum?? Ever since Sid raised his (ugly?) head about a year ago, people have been taking snipe shots at him.Sometimes when a fella is trying to defend himself in a 4 on one brawl, he might close his eyes and not be careful at who he swings at, or have the time to pick his wording.
Hell, anybody can take the written word and start picking that apart..
Why not just state your disagreement, and move on
It's not like this is holy ground or anything, is it?
FWIW, I happen to like all of the "combatants", but I have never liked an uneven fight.

Most dangerous man in the world is the loudest mouth at a lynch mob, but that does not make him or his cause right.[:-]

P.S., before anybody gets their panties in a bunch, or starts feeling warm and cozy, I would equally defend any of you in an unfair fight.

Then again, there is always the magic green button...........

Well - no one ever accused Sid of being pretty.

I have changed my mind about one thing: the energy in the hostile comments above implies these people are sincere in their delusions - they are not misrepresenting what they know is the truth. They have elected not to believe me - past and present - and are stuck with the consequences of that choice. They also lack the maturity and character to honor their own agreements to be civil as participants in the Forum. I suspect the problem is subconscious - that they really don't want to believe what I say - because then they would be for some reason jealous or something similar. There is no future in such attitudes and behaviors - and I remain hopeful they will reform.

In any case I will never say something I don't believe is true (which isn't quite the same thing as saying I won't say something that isn't true - because I might be wrong). Nor will I refrain from saying something because these few people won't like it. I cannot make their choices. My life experience is that there are always a few people who make negative assumptions. Those who are reasonable at heart eventually will figure out that I am a bit of a fanatic about truth and ethics - and would never fabricate (knowingly). Those who are not reasonable at heart do not concern me. Life goes on. There is no point in permitting negative digressions from a thread to become dominant. The entire direction of this thread is inappropriate - and should be deleted as a body. I remain mystified why anyone would think I might say something I knew was not so - but clearly they don't have a clue who they are talking about.

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have changed my mind about one thing: the energy in the hostile comments above implies these people are sincere in their delusions - they are not misrepresenting what they know is the truth.

The only truth i saw was that you again made an implied claim about fixing the data, then the code will follow. You were asked, simply, to back up that statement. You refused. A wise choice because you and I both know that you have no official involvement with the WitP team.

In any case I will never say something I don't believe is true (which isn't quite the same thing as saying I won't say something that isn't true - because I might be wrong).

Its also not the same thing as saying "I am being completely truthful."

My life experience is that there are always a few people who make negative assumptions.

I know i made no assumptions when you dropped your latest hint about data/code changes.....hence I asked you to identify the person and time of the alleged "You fix the data, we'll fix the code" variation seen here. You [again] hid behind a weak excuse of confidentiality. If you truly embraced the concept of confidentiality, you would never have mentioned it at all.

I remain mystified why anyone would think I might say something I knew was not so - but clearly they don't have a clue who they are talking about.

I remain mystified why you would expect me to believe something I and everyone else who was directly involved in the development of WitP know is not true.

Always, never, and everyone are dangerous words. My physics teacher used to say "no generalization is always true, including this one." I believe you believe what you say. But that does not change that you are wrong. Nor does it change that I never lied. Nor does it justify the initial comment that I claimed to be the authority for everything WITP - which somehow got diverted to this quite different claim that I lied. If it were somehow germane I cold win this dispute in court - on the written record.

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I believe you believe what you say. But that does not change that you are wrong.

You were given a chance to prove it. You declined...because I am not wrong.

I missed it somewhere. What chance was that? You are on the horns of a conundrum: if I lied, I am a liar and you don't believe me. If I told the truth but you believe I am a liar, you still don't believe me. Continuing down this road continues to divert the thread from its purpose, and continues to break the rules of civility on the board. But it does not provide any solution. People who already "know" everything cannot be told they are wrong, no matter that they are completely wrong. I never for a moment expected you to believe me - whatever I said - particularly because I have said it before and you didn't believe me then either. I have no intention of playing games that cannot be won. I also have no intention of changing my relatively positive opinion of you because you are irrational in this matter: some day you will probably figure it out. I am patient.

I can claim to be a professional liar. I am a former US Navy electronic warfare deception specialist. I also have much more current service in military police (Army type) and civil investigations. It is not useful or effective to participate in a forum of this sort and lie. Aside from matters of ethics (it is said I am also "the last knight" who believes in ethics in combat even) - it just is silly to lie, unless it will save lives/win a fight. As an investigator, I am trained to look for motive: without a motive there can be no crime. There is nothing whatever to be gained from deception in the Forum - and it says a whole lot more about people who think someone is being deceptive than it does about the accused to say otherwise. For my part, I assume people tell the truth until the evidence drags me kicking and screaming to some other conclusion. And asking someone who does not know is not how you find out if something is true or not.

Post #7 (El Cid)

I was told "get the data right and the code will follow if need be."

Post # 8 (Nik)

who told you you to get the data right?

Post # 9

(Alaskan Warrior)

As far as the data and the code will follow, who appointed you the sole proprieter of what this should and should not be?

post #15 (El Cid)

The truth is that I have never claimed any official status as a tester, developer or anything else - so to say I did is itself false. On the other hand to say that I have no connection is equally false. Andrew and I enjoy what might be called a semi-official association.

post # 16 (El Cid)

It is not appropriate to disclose the source or technical details of such communications in great detail

post# 17 (Andrew Brown)

I do receive occasional private contact from El Cid via email, as I do from a number of other forum members, and exchange the occasional message, again as I do with other modders and forum members. And as with the others, the messages are about things to do with scenario mods or map mods. It should be no surprise that people who are interested in modding WitP are in occasional contact with each other in this way. I do not see anything special in this.

In other words...there's nothing "official" or "semi-official" about your filling Andrew's email box. He answers because he's polite and generous with his WitP knowlege. He does the same for anyone else who has questions.

You gave AW one of your typically obtuse replies...."I never claimed official status...however to say i have no connection is untrue etc etc" .... Either you are connected with Matrix or your not. Andrew cleared that one up where he is involved. Your not connected. You gave me another one of your famous...."Confidentiality" lines. As before, you claim, but can't back up what you say. Hence you didn't answer clearly or truthfully.

You wish to mod? go to it. You wish to give forth your opinion? go for it. Keep dropping false hint's of inside info/status/connection etc etc, expect to back it up with facts....not more stories about your alleged background(s)