Matrix Games Forums

Jason:
I am upset. You do the play testing. I have advanced systems and my computer guy loads my games. Loading your game and discovering problems led to a $575 bill before we thought all was resolved...to some extent... Let me know when you get 1.03 done. As stated, I'll go back to the prior versions until the numerous problems are resolved.
Last Matrix game I will purchase.

for what I paid. If the game is unplayable, then it is not done. It is incomplete. What do you not understand in what I've said. Handful of problems: DUDE. I CAN'T PLAY THE GAME! That means it's not done and should not have been released!

Alright, I'll PM you when the 1.03 UPDATE is released.

Jason Petho

Tim41 seems really frustrated.
 
I like this version of Campaign Series.
 
When I experience problems, I also like the responsiveness of Jason and everyone else on the forum.
 
I play Dynamic Campaigns only rarely, but my understanding is the most frustrating bugs were always in the Dynamic Campaigns and continue to be in the Dynamic Campaigns.  My understanding is Jason has been working on these bugs and any other bugs people encounter.
 
I'm sorry to hear Tim41 is having troubles with the Dynamic Campaigns.
 
I'm a very satisfied customer, and I'm looking forward to patch 1.03.
 
 

Jason,
The reason I knew of some of the many other problems mentioned in the forum is that when I install a game with my guy-who makes sure other data files are not comp'd, we spend time play testing the game. Each time something came up...we found it in the forum. It saves time to have him here so he's not coming back for every problem. It costs.
I thank you for your help, and I understand that all games have problems. My only general question is why the other releases have ALWAYS been fine (They worked on 95 first, then 98 and XP (I have two XP's-one for games just like this-requiring a lot of speed and memory). I even installed them myself (95 and 98 -dumb ^&*% that I am). You mention this BETA team thing. As a commercial insurance agent of 25 years, it seems the only companies not subject to product liability are gaming companies....It comes down to customer satisfaction. YOUR SERVICE IS GREAT and I would not want to be in your shoes.
In the 70's, when I play tested table top wargaming rules as an employee of Competitors Castle here in LA, we spent years in some cases to make sure that these issues were worked out.
I love the game. No doubt GHQ does not! John Tiller enabled guys who could not afford large collections to be an equal. It allowed us to realistically play large scale actions in reasonable time...and the game is just pure fun.
I REALLY HOPE 1.03 COMES OUT SOON!
Thanks and good luck: Tim41

The old version is now having problems due to the new installation of your new product. Game (old) crashed for the first time EVER. More expense. More work. Please let me know of the update via email, which you have. I am deleting the new version completely so the older versions are not effected asap.
SO FAR, THIS WAS AN EXPENSIVE WASTE OF TIME. I am most unhappy with your company and product. At this point, I feel like asking for my money back for this game which does not work.

I would like my money back-your product is defective. Whom do I speak with?

ORIGINAL: Tim41

The old version is now having problems due to the new installation of your new product. Game (old) crashed for the first time EVER. More expense. More work. Please let me know of the update via email, which you have. I am deleting the new version completely so the older versions are not effected asap.
SO FAR, THIS WAS AN EXPENSIVE WASTE OF TIME. I am most unhappy with your company and product. At this point, I feel like asking for my money back for this game which does not work.

The two games are completely unrelated in the installation process. There shouldn't be any conflict at all. I run multiple copies of both on my machine with no conflicts.

Jason Petho

ORIGINAL: Tim41

I would like my money back-your product is defective. Whom do I speak with?

support@matrixgames.com I would imagine. Not sure though, but they should let you know.

Jason Petho

Maybe the computer guy is making things too complicated? Just a thought, but it doesn't seem like too many other folks are having this much problems in installing a game, then applying the patches. I have also multiple copies of JTCS, and at least 3 copies each of EF, WF, RS, and DG, as well as numerous mods I'm working on, and haven't had any problems?! I've had these games since they first came out, and constantly fool around with them, just wondering what the guy is checking etc. What are your system specs etc, a little more info would certainly help![:D]

At $575 I would start to wonder if I'm being taken for a fool or something, do you know this guy, and know anything of computers at all to dbl-chk things he says? Not trying to be a smart-ass, just seems a little suspicious...

Mike

why after thousands of hours of play, East Front II Gold suddenly crashed yesterday? In the same way the new game crashes! Hundreds of Campaign games and not a single problem ever-since 2001 (East Front Gold II). Now, the first time I played it after downloading your game it crashes? My computer person explained that downloading the new game could cause problems for the old game. He was right as always, and I will let him explain via email when he arrives exactly how this could happen.
This is the most unpleasant, expensive experience I've ever had with a game. I intend to leave this feedback on a number of popular sights as a warning to others. YOU (Jason) should have someone from customer service contact me! Why do I have to explain this (and every other) problem AGAIN? I would think that you would go out of your way to help an unhappy customer, but perhaps the idea of customer service is dead.

taken care of my systems for years. He has installed the prior versions of this game without problem in the past and I have (REPEAT), never had any problems with the games in their prior form. EVER!
The cost came as I discovered problem after problem play testing the new game. We would then see if the problem was discussed in the forum. Some were not-the loading issue for example. It took time to discover some of these...shooting cycles, etc. He patiently stands by while I discover the various problems with games. It's just easier to have him here-and it's MY problem that his hourly rate is not cheap (though he hasd worked for many hours for free over the years). He does not take advantage of me. As it is, I have to have hime come back to unload this and the old games and reload them. Everything concerning the games MUST be removed properly fom the system and then the games (older versions) must be reloaded-which even I can do.
It's really not a problem guys-I just want to go back to the old version and hope it works. Hopefully this company (Matrix) will give me my back the cost of the game and the patch service cost. It's not the end of the world. I like the old version as much as ever AND WANT IT BACK IN WORKING FORM.

My guy will be here today or at latest tomorrow. He will write you to explain exactly how this could happen. He's explained it to me, but let's let him answer you and Jason directly so you can judge for yourself if this problem is related to the installtion of the new game or if he's taken advantage of me. I think that's fair.
It is a complex game, but releasing it without what Jason refers to as BETA testing was a REALLY BAD IDEA. I play the campaign mode and usually corps actions which take a hell of a lot of time and planning. To have the game crash is unaccepatble to me.
I too have had NO problems with the prior versions. Why then whould all of a sudden there be a crash the 1st time I played the old game after installation of the new?

by the new game:
Previously, when opening a campaign saved on the prior issue, the commander's name was just filed as that. Now .ccd appears after the name and when starting a new campaign (in the old game) the commander's name appears at the top of the list (again with .ccd after it). This change-whatever it is is a result of the NEW GAME. Files, directories, etc.-this is what the computer guy can explain, but somehow the old is effected by the new.
Another expample. The old game set up mode often spread the units helter skelter (platoons far off from their assigned transport-a pain that I could live with). Like the new game, this is a little less helter skelter. This was a first clue the new file somehow affected the directies of the old games.
The old game has now crashed once. Not in my 95, 98 or XP's (actually have three XP's) has the 2001 version presented any of these problems.
PERHAPS THERE IS SOMETHING WE MISSED IN THE FORUM EXCEPT I DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ THE HUNDREDS OF FORUM STUFF ANYMORE...I JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME WITHOUT CRASHING.
I'LL STORE THE NEW GAME ON ONE OF THE THREE XP SYSTEMS IF POSSIBLE IN THE HOPE THAT 1.03 WILL SOLVE SO MANY PROBLEMS. AFTER THE INVESTMENT, WHAT ELSE MAKES SENSE? I JUST DON'T LIKE BOTHERING A ANY Of YOU-ESPECIALLY JASON. I THINK THE ABOVE PROVES THE POINT THE OLD GAME IS EFFECTED BY THE NEW INSTALLATION WHICH WAS A DOWNLOAD. PERHAPS MY GUY DID SOMETHING WRONG. he will pass on the capacity/system info to you both in case you have any ideas of why this is happening. I want his answer also. Part of the problem (in fairness) was also a problem with the wireless here in Santa Monica that greatly effects net speed...That was part of the extra cost. We amended that to some extent but SM has problems all over and we use a dish-not cable. Speed is usually fine for my needs, but the wireless sometimes goes out even on cell phones here.
-The only file I can remember not working in the old game was one of the last campaign games in East Front (predetermined unit size) didn't load. As I play the corps level, this really never effected me in the least. Yes-one mistake I can think of.
I am upset not about the money...not about the pain of so many questions and looking the fool, but simply because I want to play the new game with so many new options!!! I stick by my statement that a game should not be released without proper game testing. Bugs are common in some of the newer games. There are just too many critical ones in this new version. The Engineers...the mounted cavalry that shoots 47 times and crashes the game, etc. Crashing the game just means it's a waste of time to even play it. Sorry, that's the way I feel. Who has time for that?

Actually I'm 100% behind Tim41 - As far as being a campaign rather than Scenario Player I know exactly where he is at. I've played CS both ways with 1000 or so ladder games to my credit. Tim seems like he has been around for quite some time, so I'm a little unclear on his motives. Tqalonsoft had a decent forum up and we got a couple very well tested patches from them. The Take Two nightmare was horrifying and really devastated a large part of the player base - I still feel prostituted. Matrix has given the game a new lease on life - Theyre willing to share developement with the gaming community. Judging by how Matrix has nurtured Steel Panthers over the years - I trust them to follow thru long term. Matrx had a choice - follow take to the banks policies and dress the game with some eye candy or try to give us a complete makeover, sacrificing the pretty graphics for some real playability and historical accuracy. All good enough, but lets get a look at what's happened here. Were using volunteer designers, coders and playtesters. Initially the project lacked maturity and central direction as can be seen from the first patch. With the second patch a lot of the over ambitious stuff was pulled ( not enough by my book - The Battalion HQ situation is still absurd and the engineer rules are totally irrevalant within the current game scale for campagin applications - they need to be optional for scenarios - and again a lot of the OB junk thats been happening is scenario and not campaign based. BUT I've read Jason's posts and theres going to be an option in 1.03 to use the origional CS campaign OB's ... problem solved. One thing I've noticed here is this forum is drawing a lot of harsh and productive criticism, AND that criticism is generating responses from the powers that be.
1. The first release was a disaster.
Jason and his thugz have responded by organizing a more efficient testing and quality control apparatus. Some overambitious additions are being toned down and refined.
2. The second release was a stopgap and addressed only critical gameplay issues - as such it was succesful and addressed the needs of the overwhelming majority of players.
Campaigners such as myself and Tim41 need to wait a bit longer, but thats accepteable.
3. The third release from my POV is being managed - thats patently obvious - I see a lot of thought, planning and organization going into this release. Let's hold off on the witch hunts until we see what comes of it.

I think any game can have problems that can be solved but if it crashes in the Campaign mode (where the OB is not correct either) where I play, then THE GAME DOES NOT WORK. It's not just a slight inconvenience.
For now it's inoperable. Unplayable for me-for what I want out of the game. I can wait for the new version, but my old version is being effected by the new program as stated in another post from this morning with three examples. It's more a real pain in the ass more than a slight inconvenience now. RELOADING WILL CAUSE ME TO LOSE ALL MY COMMANDERS AND EXPERIENCE POINTS. Not a slight inconvenience.
It's not fun for a customer to have to explain these issues to the company. I'm a private player. I don't do the net. I have no motives but lack further patience for the problems associated with the game applications that apply to me directly. I am asked my opinions on games from time to time. I give them, but in this case I would not want friends to go through the frustration particular to the game in it's current state.

Tim41,

You have 2 version of the game installed? Since they are going to use the same DLL and other management files, you are probably causing these problems your self.

I am running XP SP2, and have yet to have a problem with the JTCS version of the game.

Jason,

Keep up the good work.

as related when my guy installed the game and patch 1.02 on the XP's (2 of 3 of them). He claimed that was a problem that could occur. I will pass along your comments but it seems strange you have had no problems in the new version in XP? I have all the same game problems in two of my XP computers loaded with the game JTCS.
As stated-the new version will be stored in a seldom used XP that does not include the older versions for the 1.03 version to come..... I'll simply have the older versions reinstalled in the other XP's.
ANYONE WHO HAS IMPUT-the computer guy is coming and I'm not having him return until 1.03: any comments welcome asap.

Tim41,

I used the windows remove application to remove the original Talonsoft versions before I loaded JTCS. Since JTCS is a update/modification to the original, I would think that removing the original is required so that everything runs fine.

BY the way, I only play Dynamic Campaigns, and have had one minor problem, Which these forums told me how to correct.

Well, I have the original West Front, East Front II, and Rising Sun installed on my XP along with the new Matrix version and have had no problems at all. I am even playing 2 scenarios I had started in the old versions (1 in EFII and 1 in WF) in the new version without any problems.