Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The Tutorial mission is the easy introduction to the game. Boot Camp tries to teach game tactics, which means there can be some hard lessons. It just takes practice to overcome them and once you do, you have much better mastery over the rest of the game. I would also advise everyone to play Boot Camp on Easy and read the suggestions above.

Storming a stone building with 1 section, when engaged from all sides by at least as much inf plus guns, is just suicide. You win usually because on the 3rd try you position your smoke knowing where the (hiddenà) threats are, that's just learning how to play gamey.
What the Camp should teach is to retreat when the 1st squad dies... or make it play from Russian side and try "Hurrah" charge ! [:'(]

In my experience, if you don't charge out of cover right away (which is a bad idea), the Soviets reveal their positions. If you instead wait for a proper smoke screen, you usually get an idea of what you're faced with before you leave the woods and can suppress and destroy some of them before you charge out. You have 12 turns to do this, so an immediate rush is not necesary. I think you learn more than just "gamey" lessons from that mission, but I would certainly listen to suggestions on how it could be improved.

I agree with Grell, Boot Camp should give the player gradually more difficult missions, here it's very hard and frustrating right from the start. In my game the Russians revealed only after I put the smoke and got running by turn 4, I didn't expect  to be that surrounded and got killed from flanking.
 
A good tactic would be to wait for a night attack [:'(]
 
 
 

I love the fact that the first Boot Camp mission is a challenge. My first time, I did use smoke, but only my infantry units' smoke -- and it has limited range (and only one shot per squad). I did get some squads to the church, but not enough to win. Looking forward to having another go today.

I don't really have any issue with the difficulty of the first mission. I agree that it is tough for a first time player, but I like the puzzle-like challenge.

But, I'll definitely agree with the fact that the orders menu needs a look. I'm often confused as to what I am able and not able to do at various stages in a turn, because the menu doesn't correctly reflect my options unless I de-select and reselect a unit.

I skipped boot camp and started playing campaigns.
Boot camp is really tough because of the forces available.

Well, I'm still stuck on the very first boot camp mission. I actually have an easier time on 'normal' than 'easy.' In my last attempt, I got all 3 of my squads to the church intact, with hardly any losses, and I killed the sniper and another enemy unit. But the nearby victory location didn't flip; there's an enemy gun sitting on it. So I end up with a Marginal Loss. This has happened twice. Do I have to get out of the church and take on the gun in melee?

Also, once I spot indirect fire, do I have to keep spotting it for the next 3 turns? That's often good tactics anyway, but I wasn't sure if I had the option to give other orders while the artillery is still firing. When I look at my HQ unit, he says "spotting enemy fire," and he doesn't seem to want to do anything else while the shells are raining down. That makes sense, but I'm not sure it makes sense that all 3 squads would stand and wait for the bombing to stop.

I like the challenge of this first mission, but I'm finding a bit too much of a challenge.

ORIGINAL: Grotius
Well, I'm still stuck on the very first boot camp mission. I actually have an easier time on 'normal' than 'easy.' In my last attempt, I got all 3 of my squads to the church intact, with hardly any losses, and I killed the sniper and another enemy unit. But the nearby victory location didn't flip; there's an enemy gun sitting on it. So I end up with a Marginal Loss. This has happened twice. Do I have to get out of the church and take on the gun in melee?

Hm, did you mount some of your squads into the church? Once they are in there, they are well protected and can generally destroy anyone in the area. Why would you say that Easy is harder for you than Normal? On Easy, the AI gets 25% fewer forces which should make things easier.

Also, once I spot indirect fire, do I have to keep spotting it for the next 3 turns? That's often good tactics anyway, but I wasn't sure if I had the option to give other orders while the artillery is still firing. When I look at my HQ unit, he says "spotting enemy fire," and he doesn't seem to want to do anything else while the shells are raining down. That makes sense, but I'm not sure it makes sense that all 3 squads would stand and wait for the bombing to stop.

Note that the "Spotting Indirect Fire" base platoon order does allow your squads to fire on their own. You do not need to keep spotting once the artillery arrives, if you change orders at that point the artillery will still continue to come down as it's assumed that the FO is actually doing the ongoing spotting work.

Regards,

- Erik

Thanks, Erik. Yes, I "mounted" the church (though it took me a couple of failed games to realize that was the right command). Oddly, two of my three squads entered immediately; the third refused to mount, for some reason, even though it was right next to it. And yes, the squads survived once inside, but they didn't flip control of the victory location. I suppose I needed to kill the gun crew to do that? By the time I'd targeted that crew specifically, it was too late, I guess.

As for the easy mode: it seemed to involve "softer" defenses, but more of them -- lots of infantry crawling around toward me in the open. I did score more kills, but by the time I was done I barely had time to dash for the church. I did make it, but I still didn't flip the victory location, and again I had a marginal loss.

In one of my tries at boot camp, i got two squad in the church but there is also an enemy sniper squad.  Can't seem to get rid of it... And to make things worse the AT gun keeps punding away.   The game ended as a massacre.

Grotius,

Looks like you're almost there. That Church can only mount 2 squads which is why the third is left wanting. It was expected that you would probably would have lost one squad at this point anyway. So if you can get 3 to the church you are already ahead [;)]

Yes you need to take out the gun crew, this can easily be done with another arty call (this time use HE on their a**es, not smoke [:D]) or you can just shoot them to death the old fashion way.

I have said it before but it is probably worth repeating, BC is not designed as an introduction to the game (use the tutorial for that). It was specifically made to teach 6 important tactical lessons for the use of infantry which will become very important later on in the game. You can learn smoke timing, rush tactics, arty command, close assaulting, mortar command, suppresion fire, field gun control, half track transport tactics, etc, etc. Many people said infantry was useless in PCOWS, I wanted a way to show people just how useful infantry can be, provided they are handled correctly.

Perhaps I should have used a different name to Boot camp, but as I had designed the media graphics and briefing texts by this stage, the name kinda stuck [;)]

ORIGINAL: Stridor
Perhaps I should have used a different name to Boot camp, but as I had designed the media graphics and briefing texts by this stage, the name kinda stuck [;)]

Should rename it ... KICK_YOUR_BOOTY CAMP [:D].

Rob

Ok as BC #1 seems to be causing some concern I will try and give you more of a walkthrough than the hints section in the briefing details.

1. Don't move your guys around before concealing them with smoke. They are well hidden from the enemy at the very begining. If you move them the sniper in the bell tower will see them and take pot shots at them.

2. Wait until the commander gets an arty comms line. Sometimes you may need to wait a few turns until this happens. Have patience until this happens. Don't Move.

3. When you get arty support smoke the church with an open sheath pattern. Target immediately before it (between the graveyard and the church)

4. Wait until the arty smoke has fallen for at least 1 round, perhaps 2. Ensure it is nice and thick!

5. When it is throw your squads smoke grenades. *Individually* target each squad to throw their grenades in a semi circular pattern around the platoon. This will give the best supporting smoke coverage.

6. Wait 1 turn until the grenade smoke is thick (mortar smoke should still be falling on the church and will be *really* thick now)

7. RUSH like the wind to the church. You will take fire, if you have arranged your smoke screen effectively you will have screened off most of the enemy which can shoot you.

8. In the church there is a sniper. When you get to within mounting distance of the church mount the church with as many squads as you can. If the enemy sniper is still in the tower that will be one. If he is dead or gone that will be two. Any squads you can't get inside try and shield them from enemy fire against the church walls and smoke.

9. Direct all fire onto the sniper. The guys inside will close assault the sniper and he won't last long. Once dead get another squad inside asap.

10. You will notice that there is a nearby ATG. You need to kill this to win the scenario. Direct all fire from both the squads inside the church onto the gun. This often supresses it. By this stage your mortars should have recycled. Mortar taget the gun with closed sheaf HE rounds.

11. Once the ATG is dead you win. It is expected that you will lose one or two squadies, that is ok, just get the job done.

This lesson is all about smoke timing, rush timing and arty use. Conservation of your men is not important at this stage.

ORIGINAL: Mraah

Should rename it ... KICK_YOUR_BOOTY CAMP [:D].

Nice one [:D]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I love the fact that the first Boot Camp mission is a challenge. My first time, I did use smoke, but only my infantry units' smoke -- and it has limited range (and only one shot per squad). I did get some squads to the church, but not enough to win. Looking forward to having another go today.

If you got to the church on the first time through this mission, you did a lot better than me. The closes I got was about 20 meters south of the cemetary, and that squad got wasted by a zis.

I had suppressed some of the Russians before heading out, but that wasn't enough. I did kill couple of snipers and one Russian squad and ended up with a minor loss.

But this is boot camp. Im fine with it the way it is. As long as I know some folks are winning it then I know it can be done.


QUESTION: does the cemetary provide any cover?


Thanks
Rick

ORIGINAL: Rick

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I love the fact that the first Boot Camp mission is a challenge. My first time, I did use smoke, but only my infantry units' smoke -- and it has limited range (and only one shot per squad). I did get some squads to the church, but not enough to win. Looking forward to having another go today.

If you got to the church on the first time through this mission, you did a lot better than me. The closes I got was about 20 meters south of the cemetary, and that squad got wasted by a zis.

I had suppressed some of the Russians before heading out, but that wasn't enough. I did kill couple of snipers and one Russian squad and ended up with a minor loss.

But this is boot camp. Im fine with it the way it is. As long as I know some folks are winning it then I know it can be done.


QUESTION: does the cemetary provide any cover?


Thanks
Rick

Some concealment but not very much. They are wooden crosses not tomb stones after all. [;)]

Good work on the Boot Camp.  I think it does a great job.

I think we'll add a bit more of a warning to the campaign briefing in the next update to let gamers know how challenging it can be. I'll say this though, once you all master Boot Camp you'll likely look back and wonder why it was so hard. The learning curve can be difficult sometimes, but it's worth the climb - the view from the top once you get there is great. [8D]

I'll second the kudos on the boot camp.  It was a great learning tool and as long as I knew it was intended to be a series of semi-puzzle situations I thought it was great.  I played it on normal dif. and it was fine, with only the first mission and the close assault mission requiring repeated plays to master.

I get the sniper most times, but I rarely get the AT gun, and it's sitting right on the victory location. Maybe that's why I can't get the victory location to flip? Next time I'll target it earlier.