Page 2 of 4
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:20 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: OldGuard1970
Saso's test does not show a single increase in experience.
iirc, it tops out at 60 (or thereabouts) for bombardments... and as mentioned before, experience goes up very slowly doing this... no where near as fast as getting or making an assault, but much faster than regular "training" (i.e. - waiting for exp. to increase once preparation for objective reaches 100).
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:23 pm
by Oldguard1970
I love this game! Praises to the forum!
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:12 am
by Saso
However, the best way to have conducted this experiment would be to go back to the first day, rerun the sequence with everyone just resting. Who knows, maybe fatigue would have decreased much more...
I can ask to my opponent (Spence) if he want to do it.
His units are sending the artillery shells, not receiving them. The exp increase I've noticed is for troops that are on the receiving end.
Initially Bataan's troops received fire back.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bataan
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 43078 troops, 430 guns, 30 vehicles, Assault Value = 842
Defending force 20992 troops, 206 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 481
Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Allied ground losses:
91 casualties reported
Guns lost 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bataan
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 41776 troops, 429 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 850
Defending force 20904 troops, 203 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 479
Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Allied ground losses:
95 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bataan
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 39550 troops, 432 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 860
Defending force 20857 troops, 200 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 475
Allied ground losses:
63 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:14 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: Saso
However, the best way to have conducted this experiment would be to go back to the first day, rerun the sequence with everyone just resting. Who knows, maybe fatigue would have decreased much more...
I can ask to my opponent (Spence) if he want to do it.
His units are sending the artillery shells, not receiving them. The exp increase I've noticed is for troops that are on the receiving end.
Initially Bataan's troops received fire back.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bataan
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 43078 troops, 430 guns, 30 vehicles, Assault Value = 842
Defending force 20992 troops, 206 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 481
Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Allied ground losses:
91 casualties reported
Guns lost 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bataan
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 41776 troops, 429 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 850
Defending force 20904 troops, 203 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 479
Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Allied ground losses:
95 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bataan
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 39550 troops, 432 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 860
Defending force 20857 troops, 200 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 475
Allied ground losses:
63 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
Best way is to run a head-to-head after setting up the thing to be tested... after that: save the game as turn 0 - run 30 turns one way (bombardment on). Record results.
Reload turn 0 - run 30 turns the other way (bombardment off). Record results - then compare.
Running just a few turns without a "control" (i.e.: to see what NOT doing something (bombardment)) isn't usually going to show more subtle effects of the game engine.
RE: 65th bde
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:49 pm
by Saso
Best way is to run a head-to-head after setting up the thing to be tested... after that: save the game as turn 0 - run 30 turns one way (bombardment on). Record results.
Reload turn 0 - run 30 turns the other way (bombardment off). Record results - then compare.
Ok, I'll try this but I need some days.
Running just a few turns without a "control" (i.e.: to see what NOT doing something (bombardment)) isn't usually going to show more subtle effects of the game engine.
Of course, I only written what I seen and I haven't stated comments because I don't have enough experience about WitP. [:)]
Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:46 am
by Saso
Ok, I made the test [:)]
BRIEFING
I put several Japanese units at Manila against several Allied units in defence.
I separated the test in two phases:
First phase:
- Japanese units in bombardment attack every day
- Allied units in rest
Second phase:
- Japanese units in rest
- Allied units in rest
Lenght Test:
Day 0: 12/22/41
Day 31: 1/22/42
Base: Manila (urban), fort: 1
Japanese Supply line: start at Vigan and finish at Manila (path Lingayen, Clark Field).
All units (Japanese and Allied) were oversupply.
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:05 pm
by rtrapasso
Oh good [8D] - the last tests i've seen were run a couple of years ago (under 1.6xx, iirc).
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:15 pm
by Saso
I observed two Japanese units and two Allied units as reference, and I written the following values change:
a- Experience
b- Morale
c- Disruption
d- Fatigue
e- Status disabled/ready elements
Japanese units:
1) 65th Brigade
2) 8th Heavy Field Artillery Regiment
Allied units:
1) 91st PA Division
2) 31st USA Regimental Combat Team
http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=09zybwydj6b
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:21 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: Saso
I observed two Japanese units and two Allied units as reference, and I written the following values change:
a- Experience
b- Morale
c- Disruption
d- Fatigue
e- Status disabled/ready elements
Japanese units:
1) 65th Brigade
2) 8th Heavy Field Artillery Regiment
Allied units:
1) 91st PA Division
2) 31st USA Regimental Combat Team
http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=09zybwydj6b
Sorry - that's pretty useless since i can not download or see any results - how about a summary??
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:26 pm
by Saso
Sorry - that's pretty useless since i can not download or see any results - how about a summary??
Why you can't download the file? There is a problem with the link?
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:30 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: Saso
Sorry - that's pretty useless since i can not download or see any results - how about a summary??
Why you can't download the file? There is a problem with the link?
i go to the link - i put in the code - i click download - it goes to another screen with some other links on it - none of them work.
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:53 pm
by Saso
i go to the link - i put in the code - i click download - it goes to another screen with some other links on it - none of them work.
I understood your problem, please follow this modality:
- go to the link
- put in the code and click download
- wait a minute (there is the countdown)
- click again download in the same page (bottom of the page)
- now you should see the download pop-up (and also another page but this is advertising)
Do it work now?
P.S: Can I attach a excel file?
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:06 pm
by rtrapasso
You can't attach excel - but you can attach JPG:
So far - i only see the bombardment test - no "resting" test...
The Japanese 65 Bde unit, starting with exp <60 had its exp increase slowly. The Japanese 8th Arty unit with exp 60 did not increase (this is expected as noted in earlier posts).
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:15 pm
by rtrapasso
i only saw the one file (shown above) to download... all additional attempts to connect with the site since then have failed...[:(]
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:24 pm
by rtrapasso
i went back - and still only the one file shows up as a download...
How about either posting JPG screenshot of the files, or
just posting a summary (beginning/ending stats for the various units for the two tests...)
The tests run 2 years ago were on "pristine" units - ones that had minimal disruption and fatigue to start with... these units (in contrast) have fairly significant fat and dis at the start (at least, the 2 Japanese units do).
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:26 pm
by Saso
First phase:
- Japanese units in bombardment attack every day
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:27 pm
by Saso
First phase:
- Allied units in rest
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:29 pm
by Saso
Second phase:
- Japanese units in rest
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:31 pm
by Saso
Second phase:
- Allied units in rest
RE: Test
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:39 pm
by rtrapasso
OK - some results are expected:
Bombarding units exp. increases (if exp is <60)
Bombarded units exp. increases (if exp is <60)
However, if unit already has some fatigue, disruption, then the bombarder will DECREASE fatigue and disruption by bombarding. EDIT: Also unexepected - the resting Japanese units did not decrease fatigue or disruption, which is not my experience (at least lately)... but i've been running Allies lately.
As noted - this is the opposite result than last time (but those units started with low fat. and dis.)
This part is unexpected! [X(] i would have thought at best there would be no change.
BTW - was this in stock or a mod?