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I think the reason it is not played much is that it is such a monster and has no AI or multiplayer ability like GPW. Matt put a huge amount of effort in it till he just burned out on it. Maybe someday someone else can take what he started and continue the development.
It is still possible to do multiplay by just agreeing within a team who controls what, save a turn to send to the next teammate. Otherwise it takes so much time to do a turn that it doesnt leave time for much other gaming or real life. I played some with him but working six days a week burned me out.
The Deathmatch scenario seems much more managable but I never really got anyone to play it with.
Good luck in your design efforts on GPW... Baron von Beergut

ORIGINAL: Mehring

I found this and since it covers much of the same ground I'm working on and looks interesting, tried the download link. No good. Is this why not many people play original Ostfront? I never even found mention of it till I started trawling the forum.

Really this scenario seems great but the fact that it ends in early 42 puts me off from trying it. Also the fact that it's not split up like GPW into multiple players per side is a deterrent.

Playing a scenario like this vs AI would be silly - the AI would have no chance vs a human.

If the scenario lasted until end of 44 and supported multiple players like GPW I'd definitely be up for a multiplayer game.

To all the people who play mostly AI-

I used to be like that as well, for all the reasons you give, so I really hear you. I tried playing vs. human in another game (Civ) and quickly found all the problems you guys mentioned and quit MP very quickly. I later stopped Civ entirely, though Civ has a vastly superior AI compared to AT, because it just wasn't challenging after I figured out how to predict what the AI would do.

Since discovering AT, with encouragement by many, I have started playing vs humans and it has been all good. Never once been gloated over, badgered, cheated on, or anything. And the pleasure I get when I see smart moves is SOOO much more than playing the AI. I don't play a whole lot (whatever that means) but what I find from reading posts is that people who want to play "whenever they want" who play vs. humans tend to have several/many games going, that way they can take always have some turn to do when they want.

So I'd really encourage those of you who haven't played humans at all, to give it a try. I think by and large the AT community of gamers is very kind. If you'd like, give it a go with me. I 'm not that good, but IMHO I'm a whole lot smarter than the AI.

Cheers.

ORIGINAL: Hanti
(...)
I tried Ostfront 0.96 (...) but even if editor allowed me to set AI in Ostfront scenario, it can't passe AI'"step 3".

Simple note (ATG 2.15i):
This scenario did not work as AI version in AT, but strangely it can be launched with working AI in ATGold.
I started it against German AI and it looks like normal scenario AI game. Of course AI can do a lot of stupid things, but at least it is now possible to try it.

AI attacks, encircles and kills my units, moves forward to Moscow, so far, so well.
Soviet AI works too.

PS: I suppose AI is not aware of all those "Mechanism Differences" in this scenario, but still it can be used in the scenario now.
AI needs some time to do a turn in this scenario though (some 800+ steps).

I agree that AI capable scenarios will be populaire but only in the beginning.
But when you start on the bigger more Challenging scenarios the love will be over.
An AI never thinks like a human and that is the beauty of PBEM.

For me the thing in big and challenging scenrio like GPW or bigger, that takes like two houres to complet an turn, is that you can´t save it during your turn. Thus giving you a more flexible time when to play.

One of the problems with the A.I. is due to one of the strongest points of ATG...namely the versatility of the editor. Essentialy the editor is so versatile that you can (and many of us do) make scenario's that play vastly differently then regular ATG....so much so that you often feel you are playing a completely different game. For me, as both a scenerio designer and player, that's one of the coolest features of ATG. However any AI is going to have a very tough time adapting to those different scenarios because the presumptions that make it play reasonably well under ATG no longer exist...and it'll handle the new scenario poorly (if at all).

The further a scenario diverges from vanilla ATG....the tougher a time the A.I. will have with it. So even though scenario designers (like myself) don't set out to purposefully exclude the A.I.....we often design scenario's with the full knowledge that the A.I. can't handle it because we want to provide Players with a fun and interesting experience in a given scenario that's different from the one they would get playing vanilla ATG.

P.S. Probably a good feature to improve the popularity of big PBEM games would be if Vic could figure out a way to do mid-turn saves while still retaining the PBEM anti-cheat feature.

Widell wrote: Sat May 24, 2008 7:12 pm

ORIGINAL: Hanti
So AI is a must.
And without AI - it's only beautiful but useless experience.

Well, I assume your opinions have been noted, but for this one you have but three choices: 1) Get the Captain to make an AI version (which will not be easy, not for the Captain, but for AT that is not geared for these type of scenarios vs AI), 2) Get someone else (yourself?) to make an AI version (same constraints as for all of us. AT AI will not easily manage these type of scenarios) or finally 3) Skip this scenario (Not a fun option!)

I did it! Option 2. And it now works!
Updated this old gem.
Is it better now? Of course
Much better and it works with AI!

The main difference between Captain Cruft's 0.96 and Khanti's 0.97 are working AI, ready to use TOE system and fuel is needed for mechanized/air units and production.
It means one can play it solo and it has minimal micromanaging (contrary to old version).

Notes
The scenario works with the AI (AI is not brilliant though).
The scenario is very large and complex (still) and I like it
The scenario is very different from the standard AT game, but there is less more micro-management with working TOE.
The download file is about 24mb.

I've uploaded it to scenario bank.

https://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=317

Like I wrote in the other thread.. Looking forwards to seeing it

This is an old game and I thought no one looks here anymore
I was wrong
There are two of us

Actually more.

There is me and Ormand (who keeps the game updated) and then a few others...

(Maybe you haven't heard it, but there have been recent updates)