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Yes, I also meant to note that Vals only have machine guns if I recall correctly. Not a useful plane against PTs or barges.

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Yes, I also meant to note that Vals only have machine guns if I recall correctly. Not a useful plane against PTs or barges.

Umm, read what I said next time please. K?

I said 1 bomb hit (that big thing under the plane) does them in. As far as it not being useful, clearly you have never tried it. I have, and I use it. You are of course free to not listen or even try it. Your choice.

Um....I have tried it. They suck at it, and have better things to do.

Well thats why people play WitP. Some people do things differently than others and there is more than 1 way to accomplish goals. You opinion is yours and mine is mine I guess.

I do however feel a Zero pilot isnt worth the risk against a 1 point PT boat. Since the 250kg bombs are near worthless (compaired to the US 1000 bounders the SBDs carry) against the heavier allied ships in the allies bag of tricks, it is in my opinion the best choice for the job at hand.

Worthless against what? [&:] Battleships? So are the 1000 pounders. My Vals do just fine against anything else.

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Worthless against what? [&:] Battleships? So are the 1000 pounders. My Vals do just fine against anything else.

I do agree here. Playing as Allied I would immediately change all my 1000 pounders to 250 kg AP bombs if I could. Because the smaller AP bomb penetrates everything except the BB, just like Mynok mentions. The 1000 lb GP bomb bounces off from BBs and CAs. While the 1000lb bomb does more damage if it can penetrate, it can´t penetrate the armor of one very important ship class: CA. 250kg AP bombs in the game can sink every ship just fine and it can hurt CAs also, so it would be my preferable bomb if I had to chose between the two. Of course the ideal way would be to have the smaller AP bomb against armored targets and the big GP bomb against unarmored targets but that´s just something we´re dreaming about.

I agree with Mynok not only because he is a smart guy but because he is a thread brother and you gotta love that sig.[:'(]

Heh, wonderful reasoning. I could care less if you listen to the voice of experience or not. /shrug. I do what works for me. Never said you had to follow suit. You want to waste very hard to replace and much more valuable Zero pilots chasing PTs, please be my guest. I hope its me you are doing it to [:D]

Is it normal for the 50 caliber MG and the 20mm Cannon on PT Boats to cause tremendous damage to IJN Destroyers?
 
Night Time Surface Combat, near Koumac at 67,111

Japanese Ships
DD Yukaze, Shell hits 8,  on fire

Allied Ships
PT PT-115, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT PT-116
PT PT-118
PT PT-119
PT PT-120
 UNBELIEVABLE>>>53 SYS Damage from this incident!
 

ORIGINAL: Coach Z

Is it normal for the 50 caliber MG and the 20mm Cannon on PT Boats to cause tremendous damage to IJN Destroyers?

Night Time Surface Combat, near Koumac at 67,111

Japanese Ships
DD Yukaze, Shell hits 8,  on fire

Allied Ships
PT PT-115, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT PT-116
PT PT-118
PT PT-119
PT PT-120
 UNBELIEVABLE>>>53 SYS Damage from this incident!

Those pt pests can drive a guy quite nuts. In my game I couldn`t come near the port moresby because there were some 75-100 pt boats there. Tf composed of 15 or more dd-s didn`t help at all and I lost 2 light cruisers (escorted by 9DD-s) and eventualy gave up on invading ( had to invade the neighbouring hex instead). I don`t know if they were so effective in rl. Doubt it....

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Jumper, those flak losses are horrendous even for 6-12 PTs.  Are you playing Nik Mod by any chance?

wouldn't matter if he was since the only adjustment in place currently for naval flak is the IJN TF effectiveness was reduced by 25%.

I agree about the lack of lethality from Allied divebomber ordinance.  The 1000 lb GP bomb is useful only against un- or lightly armored ships, but the 1000 lb AP bomb is only more effective against the bigger Japanese cruisers.   It won't even penetrate the deck armor of a Kongo; I know because I watched three of them bounce off both Kongo herself and Ise last night.
 
Fortunately my Avenger squadrons bailed out the DB men by smacking both BB's with a couple of torpedoes each, but shouldn't the 1000 lb AP bomb penetrate vs BB deck armor?

ORIGINAL: Coach Z

Is it normal for the 50 caliber MG and the 20mm Cannon on PT Boats to cause tremendous damage to IJN Destroyers?

Night Time Surface Combat, near Koumac at 67,111

Japanese Ships
DD Yukaze, Shell hits 8, on fire

Allied Ships
PT PT-115, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT PT-116
PT PT-118
PT PT-119
PT PT-120
UNBELIEVABLE>>>53 SYS Damage from this incident!

Hmmmm 53 sys damage does certainly seem high for 20mm hits. However, IMHO, if this had been a real life engagement that DD should thank it's lucky starts it wasn't torpedoed. 1 DD hunting a pack of PTs seems an iffy proposition.

From the accounts I've read, though, it was the PT boats that feared the DD's and not the other way around.  The PT ambushed its prey and wasn't all that great a firing platform for torpedoes, being too small, while a DD was heavily armed, could maneuver quickly and was as fast or faster than most PT's.

Actually most of the hits (5) were from the 50 cal MG fire!

If this was one lucky incident it  would all be fine. I'd say they must have gotten a lucky hit on a torpedo warhead, this might certainly account for 53sys if it dosent sink the DD. But such things happen all the time.

If the .50 on the PTs shoots up steel DDs pretty good I wonder why I cant hurt the smaller wooden PTs with the bigger 20mm gun on the Zeros

The 20mm gun on the Zero was fairly worthless; it had a low rate of fire, low muzzle velocity and from pilots' reports it was also inaccurate except at very short range.  I believe it was Saburo Sakai who disliked the 20mm so much he tended to use his MG's against enemy planes instead of the cannon.

Nope not a single torpedo hit accounted for 53 system damage. All shell hits....another IJN DD has 37 Sys from 6 MG & 20 mm hits now.

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

The 20mm gun on the Zero was fairly worthless; it had a low rate of fire, low muzzle velocity and from pilots' reports it was also inaccurate except at very short range. I believe it was Saburo Sakai who disliked the 20mm so much he tended to use his MG's against enemy planes instead of the cannon.

What you say is certainly true for air-air but it could do for a wooden PT. They should be little bit slower and less manuverable than allied fighters.

ORIGINAL: Coach Z

Nope not a single torpedo hit accounted for 53 system damage. All shell hits....another IJN DD has 37 Sys from 6 MG & 20 mm hits now.

What I meant was that once in a while, probably only once in the war, a PT may get lucky and may hit, with it's .50cal, one of the torpedo warheads mounted on deck of the destroyer. Could explain 53sys once, but not every other day...

[/quote]

What I meant was that once in a while, probably only once in the war, a PT may get lucky and may hit, with it's .50cal, one of the torpedo warheads mounted on deck of the destroyer. Could explain 53sys once, but not every other day...

[/quote]

That is quite true. I believe that everything is possible in a war![:D]