Matrix Games Forums

One incident the Daves Warbirds site doesn't mention occurred at Midway.

In re fleet oiler Akebono Maru, from www.combinedfleet.com

4 June 1942:
About 2354 (JST), the convoy is attacked by four torpedo-carrying Consolidated PBY-5A "Catalina" amphibious patrol planes of Patrol Squadron 24 from Midway. Lt William L. Richards, the flight leader of the mission, scores a hit on AKEBONO MARU's bow with an obsolete Mark-XIII Mod 1 torpedo at 26-34N, 174-14W. The torpedo hit detonates AKEBONO MARU's AA shell magazine and tears a 10-meter long gash in her side. Eleven crewmen are KIA and 13 wounded. [2]

Well is that an anedocte or representative? If it is representative we can find many more. I also think that Catalinas didn't went with torpedos unless the US needed to put everything in the basket. If the primary mission is search, a torpedo takes a good chunk of range and time on station.
I have no data with torpedos but reduced range from 2075miles with 2 fuel tanks to 1250miles w/4x1000lb for PBY6-A.

It's hard to know here what you mean by an anecdote. It is my understanding that all VP PBY units had pilots who were trained in torpedo attack. Some fraction of PBYs weren't equipped to do them, however, but then the PBY was also a long range utility a.c. too.

Black cat units specificially had a primary mission of naval attack. And there are numerous instances (historically) of patrol units dropping ordnance on naval targets -- a Japanese DD in the battle of the bismarck sea as I recall -- not to mention attacking AKs and submarines. Since it is demonstrated historically that a PBY could torpedo or bomb reasonably fast ships, even those that weren't specifically Black Cat units, I'd say that the hits on a CVE that started all of this thread falls in the realm of plausible although statistically unlikely and therefore an instance of bad luck.

Hmm. Damaged CVE after combat with SCTF will be a nice burning point on horizon for every plane in range [:D] and not so hard to hit asit  will also have its speed/maneuvrability lowered due to battledamage/flooding.

ORIGINAL: herwin

The problem is that high experience aircraft in naval search generate far too many bomb/torpedo hits.

This in a nutshell is the problem (and has been the problem). I doubt this will be changed before we release but it should be on the list. It should be possible to get some - but not "far too many".

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I wish CAP had a larger effect also. I am having a large fight at PM right now and I have about 300 fighters with 70% on CAP and I keep having Kates from Lae hit my AKs that are unloading at the docks. That seems a bit bogus to me.

Are the Kates on naval search, naval strike, or port strike missions?

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I wish CAP had a larger effect also. I am having a large fight at PM right now and I have about 300 fighters with 70% on CAP and I keep having Kates from Lae hit my AKs that are unloading at the docks. That seems a bit bogus to me.

Are the Kates on naval search, naval strike, or port strike missions?

They are on Naval Search and they are getting hits during the search phase, not the attack phase.

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I wish CAP had a larger effect also. I am having a large fight at PM right now and I have about 300 fighters with 70% on CAP and I keep having Kates from Lae hit my AKs that are unloading at the docks. That seems a bit bogus to me.

Are the Kates on naval search, naval strike, or port strike missions?

They are on Naval Search and they are getting hits during the search phase, not the attack phase.

Then it's the same problem. I suspect they may do better on naval search than they would on a port strike or naval strike mission.

Taranto, Pearl Harbor, any others.

Some in North Africa for both sides but the "Harbour" definition is a bit fuzy since lack of detail about that attacks might mean just outside the harbour.

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

Yes, and PBYs are clearly the ultimate strike aircraft.

I think you have to distinguish between "unlikely" and "impossible." I have no problem with the IDEA of a torp armed PBY catching a Japanese CVE -- depending on the CVE and the speed of the convoy with which the CVE travels. PBYs torpedoed several Japanese ships during the actual war.

Is it commonplace that PBYs torpedo ships? Not by the AARs. If anything in WitP is too successful with torps, it's Betties and IJN surface vessels.

What ships where torpedoed by the PBY? I found a record of one tanker torpedoed at midway and no other ships.

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/hist-44.htm

Other ships were damaged or sunk by bombs and they where almost all freighters
( there was a japanese destroyer sunk ).

And what about torpedoes that pbys used?

http://books.google.hr/books?id=VtIKo1_ ... #PPA108,M1

Why it doesn´t surprise me that you have no problem with the idea of pbys sending down a japanese cve? Um, I wonder?sm=00000007.gif]

PBYs in the game only carry torps on night naval attack. It is rare that a TF would be spotted at night much less within the range of a PBY squadron that just happens to be on night naval attack. Like my mom used to say: dont sweat the small stuff.

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

PBYs in the game only carry torps on night naval attack. It is rare that a TF would be spotted at night much less within the range of a PBY squadron that just happens to be on night naval attack. Like my mom used to say: dont sweat the small stuff.

IRL the Black Cats worked closely with coastwatchers and PT's, so I suspect if one of them spots Japanese night movements, the PBY's will have a chance of attacking something at night.

Thats about the only way to do it. Coastwatchers, surface ships and subs.

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Thats about the only way to do it. Coastwatchers, surface ships and subs.

Therein lies the real value of PT's........(Patrol "the slot"..)