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RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:43 pm
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

The End Phase

The T-34 drives through the smoke and panzerfausts are fired at it from both sides of the road. The German troops are green recruits and fail to stop the tank which fires into the shrubs on both sides of the road at the Germans who suffer casualties and retreat. More T-34s further to the north also open fire from unspotted positions.

Over on the west side, the last Panther is hit by a round from a T-34 and the crew panic and bail. Soviet infantry, backed up by the Top Hat anti-tank gun, move in to wrap up the crew. The German battery puts in a barrage on both the ATG and the infantry to protect the Panther crew while they try to regroup.

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This photo shows the Russian infantry climbing through large craters and past a destroyed T-34 and Tiger on their way to attack the Panther crew. The cratering is from German artillery providing protection for the crew.

The battle ends and Germans take a roll call and count the casualties in the field. Russian radio transmissions are listened in on, and using all this information, a casualty list is put together.

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The bulk of German losses were suffered by the original schwerpunkt trying to drive through the heavily mined swamp trap and getting hit by counterattacking armor. More reconnaissance may have helped in spotting the Russian heavy machine guns, bunkers and anti-tank guns which did so much damage. And attacking from a less obvious route could have avoided some of the terrain and spotting problems. The Soviets took special care in using the terrain to give advantages to their defenses.

A report is sent to OKH and they transmit back the following message...

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And the next mission orders from OKH.

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Our tired and depleted troops cannot rest after the battle and now must prepare a defense. We know the Soviet counterattack will be big so we will have to dig in on the good defensive ground.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:15 am
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
Defensive Action on Horseshoe Hill



After the battle for the crossroads, German recovery teams work miracles on the tanks lost in the fighting. While tanks can be recovered, the lighter vehicles are mostly write-offs, but Colonel Stiegel is not new to the Eastern Front where constant degeneration of combat potency is the norm.

With the news of the coming Soviet counterattack, the troops of the 16th Panzer Division dig in on Horseshoe Hill and the surrounding hilltops to the west and south. These positions need to be held to ensure the supporting grenadiers can be safely trucked in to beef up the defenses.


Strategy

Horseshoe Hill is the only secure ground facing the Russian front so a defense in depth cannot be arranged without giving up key objectives. Instead, Colonel Stiegel decides on a classic rigid defense in the middle on good defensive ground while putting his mobile units on the north and southern wings to put the enemy under fire as they become engaged in the fight for the center hill feature.

The hill itself is wooded and covered in snow. With a smoke screen provided by the artillery, troops with panzerfausts and anti-tank mines can wait entrenched and hidden for the assorted Soviet armor to roar up the slopes and into the teeth of the ambush. MG42 heavy machine guns on top of the hill will prevent Soviet infantry from supporting the tanks. While the Germaninfantry close assault the surprised tanks, support fire from the two Nashorns, two Panthers and two surviving siG33 auf 38t guns on hilltops to the south will contribute to reducing the enemy. For defending in the hilltop woods, 3 platoons of infantry, 2 panzershrek teams, and two 75mm Pak40 anti-tank guns are deployed with another platoon, two mortars and Colonel Stiegel himself with his staff held in reserve on the reverse slope.

In the north, there is a smaller hill and the town where Kampfgruppe Jackboot attacked through in the previous battle. OKW has listed the town as an objective, but with it still not secure, there is little choice but to first let the Russians take it and then try to counterattack and drive them out of it. For this task, the Tiger platoon and mechanized engineer platoon are deployed on the northern hill. Due to losses in the previous battle, some of the engineers will have to go into battle on foot instead of on APCs. It is hoped this assault group will catch the attacking Soviet troops and tanks on their flank as they swoop south towards Horseshoe.

The artillery battery and the command post are positioned to the west of Horseshoe protected by a section of Flakpanzers. The CP sees little of Colonel Stiegel during battle according to his creed, "If I can't smell the cordite and blood, then I'm not close enough to the action."

OKW has also listed the crossroads east of Horseshoe and the road leading to it from the southwest as objectives to be held but that is dangerously exposed ground. Instead of a determined defense, a pair of four man recon teams and a panzershrek team are hidden in the trees and rough ground near the road to act as security posts. The idea is for them to retreat back to the main line of defense after contact with the enemy is made and the armor on the southern hilltops can put the enemy under fire. Slowing down the enemy's advance along the road will give time for the supporting grenadiers to take up positions blocking the road who will go on to retake the crossroads.


Battle

A horde of cavalry rushes west taking the crossroads and the lower southwestern road in one wild dash. The only resistance offered is from one security post of four German troops who put up a spirited defense. Repeated cavalry charges are repelled by small arms fire mowing down the brave horses and their riders. The soldiers take turns ducking into the cabin to reload their weapons while the others keep up a withering fire against the oncoming animals. After a hard fight, the post is overrun killing three of the defenders and capturing the fourth who faces an uncertain future after the losses inflicted.

After the cavalry clears the security post and charges southwest, the main Soviet assault of tanks and trucks loaded with troops steams straight west against no opposition at all. Only one recon unit is hit by a shot from a Panther. The tanks carry on through the smoke screen on the hill and into the trees as expected.

German troops deploy panzerfausts, anti-tank mines and grenades on mass against the BT-7s and T-34s but their inexperience shows with no results but one immobilized light tank. The Russian tanks overcome their surprise and return merciless machine gun and cannon fire cutting down scores of the defenders. The Germans take even more losses from their own panicky use of grenades and explosives which do little to the enemy tanks but blast their own troops apart who are trying to close assault the tanks. A 75mm Pak40 ATG is overrun because it cannot see through it's own smokescreen and it is run over by a BT-7 without having fired a single shot. The Russian tanks take the northern objective of Horseshoe and according to their orders to push on, they drive down the back of the hill into the German rear areas to finally be stopped by accurate deadly fire from the Nashorns on the southwestern hilltop. In total, the Germans lose 3 squads of troops, one panzershrek team and an ATG during the fight on the northern half of Horseshoe. The MG42s are barely able to retreat on time into the trees and smoke.

The picture shows the start of the Soviet attack on Horseshoe Hill. Note the smoke screen from the German artillery on the hill and the lack of long range defensive fire because of the intent to defend using an ambush by the infantry.

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RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:32 am
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
In the picture below, the Russian tanks have just taken the northern part of Horseshoe and are about to breakthrough to the west side of the hill. To the north of the hill, the Tigers move east to take up positions where they can put fire on the T-34s loaded with troops which have taken the town and are moving southwest to put more pressure on Horseshoe.

The Tiger crews are just as inexperienced as the troops and their shots mostly miss or bounce off the T-34s. Stuka divebombers are called in to pound the Russian tanks while two MG34s rake the Russian troops with cruel fire as they dismount the T-34s as well as the crews from destroyed tanks. The German heavy machine guns kill up to 6 men with each burst.

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The cavalry charge has overrun a security post and is charging west down the road having grabbed two objectives already. The grenadier reinforcements deploy as close as they can to set up a roadblock while MG34s and the siG33 auf 38t guns cull the herd in an appalling massacre of man and animal. Note the Nashorns on the hilltop to the northwest and the Panthers to the south. The two burning vehicles in the south are hulks leftover from the previous battle.

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RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:46 pm
by jackx
I'm not even sure what made me click on the link to this AAR in the first place, I normally stay away from most things WW2, but this turned out to be quite an enjoyable read so far. Thanks, and keep up the good work. :)

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:59 pm
by VictorInThePacific
Great report, Captain.

Looks like you're getting pwned by the computer. Congrats on your willingness to post this. Most people only post when they win.

But it's not unrealistic. The Germans don't have qualitative superiority, and they are heavily outnumbered. So why are they attacking? Because they were ordered to, by someone who doesn't understand the situation. And the obvious result is that the objectives are not obtained, and the force is destroyed. Just like the historical result.

To generalize, I have found, when I play the campaigns, that I can usually put together an attacking force that gets the job done AND keeps the core alive, which isn't a requirement for historical realism, but is necessary in order to play the campaign game. Otherwise, even if you win a scenario, you will be playing the next one with recruits or nothing, which means you will not survive the campaign.

The exception is the German campaign, where, after the invasion of Russia, the Germans are generally numerically and qualitatively inferior. This becomes an unmanageable crisis after El Alamein.

I have also found that the computer defenders generally pot my scouts (light or heavy) with one shot and remain concealed, while it takes me many hits to kill the computer units (and the opposite is true when I am defending). Therefore I have evolved the following attack procedure.

I sneak my units forward, using maximum cover, along unexpected routes. This is usually along the edge of the map and over poor terrain. I take care to NOT CAPTURE any victory hexes. When I am ready to strike, the bulk of my force falls on an objective area (better than falling on my swords, eh what?) and immediately assumes a defensive posture. At this, the computer forces all break concealment and rush forward across open terrain and (hopefully) get cut down. This seems to be the only way that I can win. It also lets me control how well I win (the level of win or loss affects what the next scenario is).

So am I speaking the truth, or am I just a noob?

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:54 am
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
Thanks for the comments gentlemen.

Victor, you understand well why Germany had such a hard time on the Eastern front.  This Korsun relief operation, after several failures, was actually a sensible attack ordered by von Manstein to rescue the people in the Korsun pocket.  Hitler had ordered a huge encirclement of all the Russians in the area so he forced the pocket to be formed and then several attacks were put in just to prove how unrealistic Hitler's idea of enveloping the Russians was.  So this attack was done with altered orders by von Manstein hoping for a direct punch through the southwest part of the pocket siege instead of another futile encirclement attempt which Hitler still demanded.  Unfortunately mud and Soviet air attacks wrecked it.

For recon, slow and careful like you recommend is of course good.  It is risky though because it is slow when you have a time limit to beat with artillery raining down on your troops as they grind their way through unpredictable mines and hidden bunkers, and your troops can get slammed on the flanks by surprise counterattacks while you are trying to circle around objectives.  Sometimes wild counterattacks can hit your lightly defended 'safe areas' where artillery and support units are like in the previous battle several attacks were put in on my fire base.  The wily designer Wild Bill makes these battles quite challenging.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:45 am
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
Oh ya my Jasc paint program just ran out yesterday cause I was using a 30 day trial to do this story so far.  I reinstalled my OS after the first battle so I could reuse the trial but now I need to look elsewhere for a paint program I can use.  I'll try and get it working in the next few days to continue the battle.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:47 am
by jackx
I'd suggest using GIMP - it's free, and while its layout may be different form commercial mainstream products, I still think it's quite easy to use.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:30 pm
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
Thanks jackx.  I will have a look at that Gimp utility and see if I can figure it out.  I'm not too familiar with paint stuff as you can probably tell from my graphical additions to my photos.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:35 pm
by VictorInThePacific
I don't know if this will be helpful for you, but this is what I do:

Aside: I am posting mostly in the "Larry Bond's Harpoon" area.

I simply take screen captures and paste them into MS Paint, which comes with Windows, I believe. Then I mostly just save the raw data as PNGs. It is also simple to crop the raw data. Adding stuff using a bitmap editor is not something I know much about. I use Adobe Illustrator if I want to make any substantial revisions. Of course, that program will probably cost you money. Fortunately, I have access to a "free" copy on a high-end machine.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:05 pm
by Hunpecked
I just came across this AAR. Good read so far. A couple of questions:

(1) Presumably it's played under 8.403 vanilla?
(2) I didn't see a roster for the initial core. Did I miss it?

This one looks hard. I checked it out first under SPWAW 7.1 (for which I assume it was intially designed). The Tiger and Panther units are Elite and cost full price; I couldn't build a combined arms kampfgruppe with more than a couple platoons. I could buy a full company of Panzer IVH (normal, therefore discounted), but how well would they perform?

Looking at the campaign in the editor, I'm wondering if the German shouldn't play for a Draw in the first scenario ("Lyssanka Attack"), advancing carefully (if slowly) as VictorInThePacific suggests, aiming to conserve the core while destroying any counterattacking Soviets. The Draw is worth a point and takes the player to an "extra" scenario ("Lyssanka Defense") complete with replacement points and an opportunity to score more campaign points. In fact, given the outcome of the first battle in this AAR, perhaps even a DL would be acceptable if it spares the core. [:)]

Of course if "Lyssanka Defense" is even harder than "Lyssanka Attack", ignore the above. [:D]

Alby, I also checked out this campaign under ENH. I noticed that the initial core is now 3,400 instead of 2,800 points, but the first scenario support points drop from 1,000 to 300 (ENH 2008) or 150 (ENH 2009). I built a test core and managed to include a full Panther G company (Rarity ate my Tigers), a Panzer Grenadier company, an engineer company, scouts, 14 mortars, and an ammo carrier plus change. Was this campaign just too hard for the average SPWAW player with the previous point allocation?

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:16 pm
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
Hi Hunpecked,

I prefer to use the vanilla, patched version of the game because the campaigns and scenarios included with the game were designed for that version and therefore the most realistic way to play it. Being outnumbered badly by the Russians is good for me to experience what the Germans had to deal with. It seems this campaign is quite a realistic Eastern front experience. I have modified some small arms and infantry units in the game to be more realistic in stats with higher prices to compensate for improvements; for example, grenades, shotguns, rifles etc have been changed and this affects all armies the same way. So my sniper is a hot shot but is expensive and still liable to being killed as I found out the hard way.

For my core, I tried to match the designers recommendations and purchased 4 Tigers, 2 Panthers, 1 mech engineer platoon, 2 flakpanzers, 4 siG33 auf 38t, one 4 gun battery of 150mm arty, ammo truck, CP, forward observer, 1 sniper and a rifle company. All units are regular Wehrmacht recruits. I use support to buy recon, heavy weapons and transport.

You mentioned the campaign is hard and it does seem so which it should be. Historically they failed and faced very bad odds from the start due to the spring thaw and the massive Russian army. Win or lose though, I'll get an A for effort! I got Gimp and once I learn how to use it hopefully soon this battle will grind forth.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:21 am
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
I loaded up GIMP and learned how to use it but the screenshots from Steel Panthers come out all black. Fortunately, I tried Jasc Paintshop again and it says it will mercifully allow me to use it for up to 60 days even though the trial expires in 30 days.
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Artillery barrages are called in to interdict the enemy's next wave of attackers in the north and center, while in the south, concentrated off-board 105mm fire explodes in amongst the tightly packed cavalry scything them down.

Nashorns finish off the tanks which made it across Horseshoe Hill while small arms fire wrap up the crews. A lone surviving tanker successfully escapes from his burning tank leaving his comrades in the flames but is struck down by a bullet from the German sniper posted with the Nashorns on the southwest hill.

Colonel Stiegel receives frantic calls for support from the troops holding the northern half of Horseshoe Hill. The troops are in disarray and about to be hit by the next wave of Russian troops and tanks attacking out of the smoke up the east slope of Horseshoe. The veteran Colonel decides to hold back his reserve platoon and let the enemy wear themselves down on the troops holding the hill. He knows it is still early in the battle and a reserve should not be committed too early.

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T-34s supported by some infantry make it through defensive mortar fire to slam the defenders on Horseshoe but this time the Germans hold the line and destroy at least two enemy tanks. Two surviving T-34s hidden in the smoke and trees rake the defenders with their guns forcing them to retreat another 50 meters. High velocity 88mm rounds from the Nashorns swoop over the hill sounding like freight trains which gives the frazzled defenders a morale boost. A T-34 is tagged by one of the big shells and explodes.

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The heavy cratering and smoke is from the 105mm barrage which decimated the cavalry attack. Supporting Russian armor and recon units which always attack alongside cavalry have been prosecuted by the Panthers and assault guns on top of the hill to the south. One of the destroyed armored units is a dangerous SU-152. Another SU-152 is still active in the fog and has fired upon both a Panther and the forward recon troops. The view from the hill is poor due to the plateau shape of it so the forward security posts manned by recon troops are vital in spotting the enemy to bring fire down on them. The second security post has been attacked by cavalry and heavy fire from a SU-152 which pushed them back with two soldiers lost. There is a big crater where the security post used to be.

Estimated casualties so far for the Russians are 10 confirmed destroyed tanks with 2 more probables in the trees of Horseshoe, 3 confirmed soft vehicles, and about 220 casualties and many horses versus the Germans having lost one ATG and about 40 casualties.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:06 pm
by Alby
ORIGINAL: Hunpecked


Alby, I also checked out this campaign under ENH. I noticed that the initial core is now 3,400 instead of 2,800 points, but the first scenario support points drop from 1,000 to 300 (ENH 2008) or 150 (ENH 2009). I built a test core and managed to include a full Panther G company (Rarity ate my Tigers), a Panzer Grenadier company, an engineer company, scouts, 14 mortars, and an ammo carrier plus change. Was this campaign just too hard for the average SPWAW player with the previous point allocation?
I have recently dropped intial points back down, dont know why they got bumped up in the first place..LOL, I am in fact re editing a number of campaigns as the OOBs have changed a bit over the last few years.
I dont recall changing the support/rebuild points for that one, but I imagine If I did it was because the artillery in ENH is cheaper than vanilla, so with all those support points, it could give you ridiculous amounts of artillery.

Look for alot of updated campaigns sometime in the near future to coincide with the release of ENH fr




RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:35 pm
by Hunpecked
Thanks, Alby. I'll watch for ENH fr.

SS Hauptsturmfuhrer, did you consider using mines in the second scenario? Turnabout is fair play, and I know I'd be looking for some payback.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:12 pm
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
How do you use mines in this game? Is there a mine-laying unit?

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:02 am
by Hunpecked
Two ways to use mines:

(1) Buy them in the support purchase screen. On the Misc page, at the bottom, you can click on the Mines/DT button to buy obstacle hexes in multiples of 5. Then during deployment , use the "x" key or click on the "mines" icon just above the right magnifying glass to start placing/removing mines, obstacles, and/or barbed wire.

(2) Engineers. Right-click on an engineer unit. On the left side of the screen near the bottom, just under "Set Range" and "Stance" is the engineer's mine setting. Left-click to switch from "Clear mines in front of unit" to "Will not clear mines in front of unit" to "Will place mines in front of unit". I only used the last setting once. When my engineers weren't busy moving, shooting, or ducking, they automatically placed a mine or two in the hex they were facing every turn until I clicked the setting again. I don't think you need to buy mines in advance, but it's a slow way to build a minefield in the heat of battle.

When I know where the enemy is coming, I like to place mines in a line of trees or smoke with infantry dug in immediately behind, and tanks just to the rear where they can cover several mined hexes. Not every attacking unit will hit a mine, but especially when my troops are green the "edge" a minefield provides may be crucial.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:19 am
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer
Thanks Hunpecked, I had no idea that feature was available.  I'm gonna have some fun with that in the coming battles.  Had I known about this before, I would have placed my engineers on top of Horseshoe to place mines in the trees as they retreated and then I could have used the other platoons for the mechanized counterattack in the north.

RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:16 pm
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

The crew of a Panther in the south panic and drive off their assigned defensive hill position after a big shell from a SU-152 scores an inconsequential hit on their tank. On the south side of Horseshoe, Russian tanks approach the infantry entrenched among the snow-covered trees so the troops pop smoke canisters to improve their odds of surviving the onslaught. A T-34 rolls up and is close assaulted with no results and the tank returns fire into the green troops who hug the ground in terror. It usually takes a couple of battles for new recruits to overcome tank fright.

An Opel Blitz truck on the southern road is destroyed by fire from a T-34 and then the last of the Soviet assault on Horseshoe is contained when three T-34s and one SU-152 assault gun are destroyed by heavy fire from the Nashorns and the newly arrived 88s being trucked in with the grenadier reinforcements. A flakpanzer sweeps the burning tank hulks with 20mm fire cutting down escaping crew members.

There is a lull after the Soviet attack and the Germans conduct combat of local significance to clean up the Soviet crews all over Horseshoe and the troops and trucks still moving throughout the Soviet rear areas. Colonel Stiegel and his staff personally take care of two enemy crews while the sniper knocks of another. Artillery barrages from the four gun 150mm battery continue to interdict the roads to the east hampering the enemy's preparations for the next attack.

In the north, the Tigers and mechanized engineers continue to attack towards the town. One Tiger gets stuck in thick mud while going through a field that has degraded to a swamp in the spring thaw just as enemy troops are spotted among the buildings nearby so the engineers disembark and prepare to assault the town outskirts. An enemy truck is hit by a Tiger and left a burning wreck.

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RE: Korsun Pocket

Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:44 am
by SS Hauptsturmfuhrer

Southeast of Horseshoe, the remaining security posts are down to the Panzershrek team and the 2 surviving recon troopers who make good use of the rough terrain to improve their defensive positions while the ground emits the subsonic tremor of approaching hooves and tank treads. Cavalry backed up by a T-34 hammer into the positions and a hot firefight develops. The cavalry repeatedly charge the tiny number of defenders who pour small arms fire into the attackers which leaves the broken remains of once fine cavalry units dangled and sprawled amongst the knotted, leafless hedgegrowth. But numbers win again and only one panzershrek soldier is able to retreat from the onslaught alive but just barely.

To the nearby north of the cavalry charge, an attack by Russian infantry and tanks attempts to clear the top of Horseshoe Hill but is stopped short of the wooded area by German infantry fire which cuts down the attackers and destroys two tanks by close assaulting with anti-tank mines and damages a third. Crews from burning vehicles continue to be shot down by the infantry including by Colonel Stiegel himself.

Counterattack on the Town

In the north, the German counterattack on the town outskirts starts out with a combined fire from engineers, Tigers and an MG-42 to force back a platoon of Soviet troops who take heavy losses. A Tiger tank passes by a burning truck in the snow covered trees and is taken under concentric fire from two T-34s firing from the northeast and southeast. Shots are traded and hits are scored by both sides. The Tiger is damaged, and after bouncing multiple rounds off them, both T-34s are finally destroyed. The way is now cleared for the two Tigers on the road behind Horseshoe to move up and engage retreating men and trucks moving eastwards.

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