Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Nomada_Firefox

not was flamethower who coded many of the maps? I have seen many bad things of these on them. [8|]

I'm not sure what is up with you and FT but it is getting extremely old. It doesn't matter which forum I visit but I see this same type of vindictiveness from you on all of them. How do you know that he is the one that coded this particular map?

Give it a rest.

Yea on Heinerscheid the edges on the train track are codded as snowy steep slope,despite the fact that it doesnt look very steep.
This prevents any ATGuns from being placed on the tracks.
If your deployment is in the upper right corner of the map it's a huge disadvantage.

ORIGINAL: Platoon_Michael

If your deployment is in the upper right corner of the map it's a huge disadvantage.

Well, that's why you should use the FIRE command with your vital units, to check your LOS in deployment mode, BEFORE you hit "Begin".
The upper right corner isn't that bad, as you can move tanks or MG teams up that hill (middle, upper part of the map, at the victory location south of your vehicle crew).

If the AI deploys Infantry on that acre in the west, south of the 2 US vic locations, there's almost no chance to boot them out of this area without supporting tanks, as you have to cross open terrain if you try a frontal attack. If you try to attack from the south, from the river bed right through the light wood, you get a proper LOS/LOF only if you make it as close as 10 or 20 meters to the enemy's inf troops crouching up there. Without tanks, only a mass attack from these woods - Russian style - [:D] brings decent results, well, with "Russian" casualty rates, hehe.

Well, that's why you should use the FIRE command with your vital units, to check your LOS in deployment mode, BEFORE you hit "Begin".

 
Ah yea I understand that.
But when you can't place your heaviest firepower with any type of real LOS your pretty much stuck.
An ATGun isnt going to move somewhere else very fast.The troops moving the gun are to slow and the AI Mortors are to accurate.
Having tanks on that part of the map desnt really make it any easier as they are slow going over the tracks and sometimes spin while on them when trying to manouver down into town due to the small amount of actuall flat terrain from the tracks themselves.

Yea on Heinerscheid the edges on the train track are codded as snowy steep slope,despite the fact that it doesnt look very steep.

It is a raised single railway line with a severe drop either side... it's not supposed to be easy.


The AI mortars are too accurate and your schrecks can't hit any thing... sounds like you're loosing badly against the AI???

The AI mortars are too accurate and your schrecks can't hit any thing... sounds like you're loosing badly against the AI???

Compund that with my poor strat movements,id say it i'll be awhile before I play H2H.

How do you know that he is the one that coded this particular map?

Because Andrew Williams told about it on CSO.

To Firefox:
can we just keep this topic specific here at Matrix?
You got 2/3 other forums to go bash someone...............go use them.

Lets use this forum for improving the game.
And just maybe getting us more support/patches etc etc.

ORIGINAL: Platoon_Michael

To Firefox:
can we just keep this topic specific here at Matrix?
You got 2/3 other forums to go bash someone...............go use them.

Lets use this forum for improving the game.
And just maybe getting us more support/patches etc etc.

Sorry we are speaking from the same, the bad los on maps. Probably the man who makes the maps can tell us about it. I have told you who you must contact about them.

PD: Speaking as you about the big errors is not a big improve.[8|]

back to the topic ...
Here is what I see with pathing for vehicles:
[ol][*]If you micro-manage the vehicle then you can get it to go over a bridge most of the time[*]If you give a general direction to go across a bridge, the vehicle will prefer to go around the bridge rather than go over it[*]Sometimes even if you put waypoints at the start, middle and end of the bridge the vehicle (especially large tanks) will prefer to go down a steep gully next to the bridge rather than go across the bridge[*]Sometimes the vehicle move to a point near the start of a bridge is interpreted as move to the spot under the bridge[*]You need to line the vehicle up with the bridge to get it to successfully cross. Slight misalignments can cause it to circle and even back across or sometimes go a longer way around.[*]There often seem to be obstacles near the bridges that the vehicles can see but you cannot.[*]The AI usually handles bridge crossing better than a human but can also really stuff it up with larger vehicles leaving them stuck, de-tracked and vulnerable.[/ol]

Heres another one,went in my favor but inmho shouldnt had.
The map listed the ground at 8.0m where the 105 Sherman was,the house at 8.0m and the ground around the Panther at 8.5m

TO MAKE CHECKING LOS EASIER:


Has anyone thought or played with the idea of:

1) right click on the unit of interest
2) every spot on the map stays either normal, gets lightly shaded or darkly shaded.

Normal = valid Line of sight
lightly shaded areas = valid line of fire
darkly shaded = No line of fire

(this would be similar to steel panthers system, albeit more complex to program, im sure). This, to me, would bring about one of the best possible improvements to gameplay!

Michael,

I could be wrong but isn't that particular building a two sided garage/warehouse, in other words, large doors on both sides that allows the LOS through it?
Someone will have to put some men in that building to find out.

It's a house,complete with sone walls and windows.

For instance, in steel panthers (pictured here), if you click on a unit then right click in any direction around the unit, the game will show you the LOS for that unit. All areas that can be seen are highlighted. All areas that cannot be seen due to obstruction or smoke, etc., are shadowed out.

Something like this would elevate CC immeasurably!!

For instance, in steel panthers (pictured here), if you click on a unit then right click in any direction around the unit, the game will show you the LOS for that unit. All areas that can be seen are highlighted. All areas that cannot be seen due to obstruction or smoke, etc., are shadowed out.

Something like this would elevate CC immeasurably!!

I think the LOS calculations are quite expensive, and doing it in realtime at that detailed level is probably too expensive.

To answer a question at the top of this thread: The waypoints were introduced in CC3. Unfortunately at the same time they also reintroduced the need to specify defense direction (that was, wisely imho, dropped from CC2) and introduced the command radius thing and starting adding other features that mostly made the game more complex (and the AI more and more unable to handle the maps).

Crushingleeek and Pellen,

This is a very interesting idea but probably not the first time this has come up. I think we'll need some input from the programmers to determine if this sort of implementation would be too taxing on the CPU.

Does anyone know how LOS is calculated?

I assume it's done on a unit by unit basis at least once every second. But, what Crushingleeek is proposing is checking the LOS from a unit to every square meter on the board. That's a lot more CPU cycles. But, It's probably more complex than i realize.

Is the concern here that the average CC fan does not have a computer capable of handling these numerous calculations? Or that the game engine can not handle this?

I'm pretty sure with the computers out there today, this could be handled by decent cpu's.

Help Programmers!

Growing pains each release is getting better!

Tank pathing has always been a issue for cc4 and esp cc5,and in my opinion its alot better then it was.

When moving tanks/vehicles, make your way point(s) short distances,i also find useing least amount of waypoints works better..then ordering more after it reaches the last one,bridges...order your tank/vehicle close to it,then give way point to center of bridge and second one just on the other side,youll find they manouver better(not always) if it starts to spin around try putting a defend/ambush arch on it,move it to the dirrection you want then use short distant waypoint. in other words micromanage your tanks/vehicles. you will find they react to your orders better.