Matrix Games Forums

At the risk of being burned at the stake I don't think the map projection should be changed at all. The vast majority of the literate world learned about geography by studying Mercator projections and although our perception of the world is thereby flawed, it is the projection we feel most comfortable with. If you want reality then check out the Gall-Peters projection and ask yourself if you'd feel happy playing MWiF on that kind of map. The current maps may be technically wrong but the correspond to my perception of reality and if MWiF ever moves away from those projections to any great degree then I'll probably get seasick trying to work with them.

It's just a game guys...

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

It's just a game guys...

HERETIC! BURN HIM!

Just kiddin'...

It seems to me that it would be best, for a global game, to have the map constructed on a 3D globe rather than any sort of flattened map.
 
The Gall-Peters map has its own problems: Africa, for example, seems comparable in size to Asia, even though Asia is about 4.12 times as large. Similarly, it appears to absolutely dwarf Europe, even though Africa is only approximately 1.3 times larger.
 
Certainly the distortion caused by the Mercator projection has its issues; however most of the distortion occurs at extreme latitudes where military operations, by and large, do not take place in MWiF. But I think a better potential solution, for a computer game, rather than trying to fix one awkward flat map projection with another (either due to different distortions or unyieldy appearance), is to put the map on a globe.

My opinion, for what it is worth....
 
I think that a 3D globular map would be great for some games.
 
NOT THIS ONE.
 
This game has 20+ years of play testing.  For once I would like to see a substantial computer port of a board game that does not completely try to reinvent the game.
 
For a later MWIF product, maybe.
 
Just not now.
 

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

My opinion, for what it is worth....

I think that a 3D globular map would be great for some games.

NOT THIS ONE.

This game has 20+ years of play testing.  For once I would like to see a substantial computer port of a board game that does not completely try to reinvent the game.

For a later MWIF product, maybe.

Just not now.

Exactly, 3D globular map looks interesting but implementing this in a wargame is another matter, it could as well show that in practice, that's unplayable. MWiF is certainly not the place to do that kind of test. I am looking forward to see a wargame which implement this, for the sake of curiosity.

ORIGINAL: micheljq

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

My opinion, for what it is worth....

I think that a 3D globular map would be great for some games.

NOT THIS ONE.

This game has 20+ years of play testing.  For once I would like to see a substantial computer port of a board game that does not completely try to reinvent the game.

For a later MWIF product, maybe.

Just not now.

Exactly, 3D globular map looks interesting but implementing this in a wargame is another matter, it could as well show that in practice, that's unplayable. MWiF is certainly not the place to do that kind of test. I am looking forward to see a wargame which implement this, for the sake of curiosity.

I'd dream of a googleearth like map for WiF FE. One that is spherical when in the distance, but that you can close up so that it becomes flat.
A sphere covered with hexes.

Froonp,
A sphere with hexes won't work I don't think.  Unless you distort the hexes too.  Or have them interlock in ways that will make them not be flush with each other.  Someone correct me if I am wrong. But, I was thinking the same thing when I started this thread.
 
The projection I recommended above works well because you CAN coat the surfaces with hexes and have them all line up properly. However, it still isn't a perfect solution and doesn't do justice to the great circle routes (for instance a route from London to New York going over iceland instead of through the mid-Atlantic).
 
We really, really need to get to 3D gaming on a globe though. All of this stuff, all of these flat maps are from a by-gone era when we humans couldn't play games on anything but flat maps. Of course, they could have done games like risk on a globe with magnetic pieces, but I haven't seen it yet.  

A globe with hexagons should work, I think. Picture a soccer ball -- some are covered with hexagons, some with pentagons. Google Earth would be a great starting point, but the changes in the landscape over 70 years ...

Another issue would be flying over the Arctic circle ... difficult then, impossible in WiFFE, but no restictions in RAW if applied to the new map.

No strong feelings, but I'd like a computerized version of the board game first.
_ But on the other hand, a version with more than six times as many hexes in China, the game play and balance just might be a little different.

(There will be good solutions, I hope.)

As a side issue: A soccer ball consists of 12 regular pentagons and 20 regular hexagons.

This has been thrashed out before. I proposed a 3D map in 2004...

tm.asp?m=677366&mpage=1&key=Spherical%2 ... ap&#677366

(I hope that link works)

...and then it was brought up again...

tm.asp?m=1905549&mpage=1&key=&#1905549

Basically it ain't going to happen for this release and as so little land combat occurs at extreme latitudes it doesn't really matter.

It would be elegant, and would eventually enable the rules to be streamlined and facilitate Cold War expansions with bombers over the poles etc but I'm just happy there will soon be a playable MWiF.

My replay facility got binned too. Actually I think Steve might have something against me

Cheers, Neilster

ORIGINAL: Neilster

This has been thrashed out before. I proposed a 3D map in 2004...

tm.asp?m=677366&mpage=1&key=Spherical%2 ... 93;�

(I hope that link works)

...and then it was brought up again...

tm.asp?m=1905549&mpage=1&key=?

Basically it ain't going to happen for this release and as so little land combat occurs at extreme latitudes it doesn't really matter.

It would be elegant, and would eventually enable the rules to be streamlined and facilitate Cold War expansions with bombers over the poles etc but I'm just happy there will soon be a playable MWiF.

My replay facility got binned too. Actually I think Steve might have something against me

Cheers, Neilster

I would dearly love to code a replay capability. Could you arrange for there to be 60 hours in a day and 10 days in a week? If so, we can discuss the number of weeks in a year next.[:)]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I would dearly love to code a replay capability. Could you arrange for there to be 60 hours in a day and 10 days in a week? If so, we can discuss the number of weeks in a year next.[:)]

Pardon me, I may be of some help here.[:)]

The Irish long ago found the secret to the space time continuum and the key to balancing "work vs available time"....BOOZE.

So Steve, maybe your solution is somewhere at the bottom of an unknown number of coconut drinks?[:D][:D][:D][:D]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Neilster

This has been thrashed out before. I proposed a 3D map in 2004...

tm.asp?m=677366&mpage=1&key=Spherical%2 ... 33;�

(I hope that link works)

...and then it was brought up again...

tm.asp?m=1905549&mpage=1&key=?

Basically it ain't going to happen for this release and as so little land combat occurs at extreme latitudes it doesn't really matter.

It would be elegant, and would eventually enable the rules to be streamlined and facilitate Cold War expansions with bombers over the poles etc but I'm just happy there will soon be a playable MWiF.

My replay facility got binned too. Actually I think Steve might have something against me

Cheers, Neilster

I would dearly love to code a replay capability. Could you arrange for there to be 60 hours in a day and 10 days in a week? If so, we can discuss the number of weeks in a year next.[:)]

Yes. Get the Babylonians with their base 60 number system to organise each day and use the Revolutionary France 10 day week (1783-1805). You might need a wormhole or some kind of space-time fabric melder as well. Problem solved!

Cheers, Neilster

ORIGINAL: Neilster
You might need a wormhole or some kind of space-time fabric melder as well. Problem solved!

Cheers, Neilster

Beer melds well [:D][:D][:D]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Yes. Get the Babylonians with their base 60 number system to organise each day and use the Revolutionary France 10 day week (1783-1805). You might need a wormhole or some kind of space-time fabric melder as well. Problem solved!

Cheers, Neilster

I guess it's just a typo but as a Frenchman, I have to correct it: the 10 day week system came into force in 1793 and not in 1783 (i.e. after the French revolution had actually begun [8D])

NO.NO.NO.

TEQUILA!!!

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
I would dearly love to code a replay capability. Could you arrange for there to be 60 hours in a day and 10 days in a week? If so, we can discuss the number of weeks in a year next.[:)]

Pardon me, I may be of some help here.[:)]

The Irish long ago found the secret to the space time continuum and the key to balancing "work vs available time"....BOOZE.

So Steve, maybe your solution is somewhere at the bottom of an unknown number of coconut drinks?[:D][:D][:D][:D]

ORIGINAL: tde001

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Yes. Get the Babylonians with their base 60 number system to organise each day and use the Revolutionary France 10 day week (1783-1805). You might need a wormhole or some kind of space-time fabric melder as well. Problem solved!

Cheers, Neilster

I guess it's just a typo but as a Frenchman, I have to correct it: the 10 day week system came into force in 1793 and not in 1783 (i.e. after the French revolution had actually begun [8D])

Sorry...a typo on my part.

I think it's Primidi, 1 Ventôse An CCXVII (Year 217) in this part of the world right now [:'(] I'm loving this decimal date stuff.

Cheers, Neilster

The decision to have a single scale for both the European and the Pacific Theatre maps did change how the game plays. I remember all the debates in this forum about this long ago, which was why I wished back then that the Fuller map projection be implemented if such a fundamental change was going to be implemented anyway.

Yes, changing the map is a big change. Though it has always been a Wif goals (lots expension add map to replace the off -map hexes). Changing the number of hexes like using the european scale everywhere is really a big change. If you want to use the old strategy then you will have to ask for an original map option with the off-map hexes and asain hexes, so I don't see why we cannot have a spherical earth. I like geographic realism as at least this one can be correct. As this quote stress out, the map is already altered so let go to the final state and make it sperical so we have no disortion of distance. I have naver consider playbility when it game down to an historical wargame of that scope.

So please consider that for the next expansion.

In the last few days when I try to logon to the forums it asks for my name, password AND to key in a series of letters.
 
 
Is this a new requirement or is there somthing going on I should be responding to?

Maybe they had some bots trawling the forums recently?