Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Anyhoo, I'm moving to Perth in a week. That's like Delaware to L.A. for our American friends. I've got some sweet transport lined up for the cross-country trip [:D]

Enjoy the drive!

ORIGINAL: Neilster

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I thought this was the MWiF Fan Site...


and just so you know, Harry made some noises about setting up some more WiF related content on the ADG site a few months ago. Don't know if anything has came of that yet?


but an opponent ranking system would be very, very cool. there was one a long, long time ago

... in a land far away and down under?

That sounds like Tasmania. The "long, long time ago" bit could be explained by the accusation that we're five years behind. Actually Hobart is quite funky and cosmopolitan but one doesn't have to go far to see a few six-fingered, banjo-plucking, cousin-fancyin' hill folk [:D] Hanging out as I do in gentrified Sandy Bay I get a bit of a shock when I do.

Anyhoo, I'm moving to Perth in a week. That's like Delaware to L.A. for our American friends. I've got some sweet transport lined up for the cross-country trip [:D]

Cheers, Neilster

i was in Hobart once, and have fond memories of that place. I went to the casino. The rumor around the USN at the time was that Tasmania had 11 women to every man. Is that true? I, in typical fashion, chased Heidi Klum only to go home with Ricki Lake(names have been altered). I saw Freemantle briefly -it looked like a train station surrounded by a town surrounded by desert. Large piles...of sulphur? If memory serves. That was 1979. I believe I remember this station wagon though.

Well, Fremantle and Hobart have changed significantly since then. Both have cashed in on their historical and nautical pasts to become boutique tourist centres. You know the drill...renovated sandstone warehouses, loads of classy restaurants on the waterfront and every time you turn around another wine-bar has opened up. There are a lot of foxy women around Hobart and I am lucky enough to know a few but the ratio you mentioned is pure shipboard fantasy [:D]

That Casino was a big deal when it opened in 1973 because it was the first one in Australia. It really kick-started Tasmanian tourism and it's now considered a bit of an architectural landmark. Sandy Bay has always been a strange but interesting mix because it has wealthy people, the university (with its attendant poverty stricken students) and the casino. Now its shopping district is rapidly becoming Hobart's Chinatown due to the number of Chinese students living nearby.

That car is (I believe) an exact replica of the Family Truckster from American Vacation. Note the dog lead still tied to the rear bumper. My Dad could get a bit like Clark Griswold on long car trips. Relentlessly upbeat but often not quite in touch with reality [;)]

Cheers, Neilster

Thank you for that update Neilster. I had such a good time in Australia, even as a lowly 3rd class sonar tech. I could go on, but I've used up my segway for now. Perhaps National Lampoon should do an Australian vacation movie. My experience alone might greatly help the writers.

Personally, I think that it is acceptable to concede a game.  If I am clearly beat, then is it not better to acknowledge the superiority of my opponent and try again?  Or find new opponents?
 
If a player concedes, there should not be 'penalties' for not having finished the game.
 
If there are problems with someone returning a turn, there should be a facility for an automatic forfiet.
 
But please no penalties for admitting you lost and surrendering.
 

ORIGINAL: macgregor

Thank you for that update Neilster. I had such a good time in Australia, even as a lowly 3rd class sonar tech. I could go on, but I've used up my segway for now. Perhaps National Lampoon should do an Australian vacation movie. My experience alone might greatly help the writers.

We had the USS Tarawa visit not long ago and those guys seemed to have a lot of fun. After a long cruise (is that the right expression?) on a dry ship with little to spend one's wages on, I'm not surprised. The community went out of its way to put out the welcome mat and it brings in heaps of moola so everybody's happy.

The local Australian Rules Football team put out a general invitation and over 300 people from the ship turned up to their game. It wasn't long before desperate calls were put out to restock the bar and the team souvenir stand was sold out in no time. Despite some confusion about the rules, the sailors and marines were extremely enthusiastic in their support. Perhaps Hobart were inspired because they beat their arch rivals for the first time in years by 4 points (a very narrow win) and there were chaotic scenes in the change rooms after the game as these new and very drunk Aussie Rules fans joined the players in celebration [;)]

I spent quite an interesting and long afternoon with people from the Tarawa at Knopwoods tavern on the docks the next day. Good people. Good fun. They were on their way home after Hobart so they were in a jovial mood.

Cheers, Neilster

That's so cool. I remember the Tarawa was launched when I was in boot camp (sept '78?). We then metup with her in Phattaya...May '79(Freemantle-Hedland-Singapore came first). I got to ride a in a 'Mikeboat'. Australia was the most fun though. Precisely for the kind of stuff you mentioned.

Personally, I think that it is acceptable to concede a game. If I am clearly beat, then is it not better to acknowledge the superiority of my opponent and try again? Or find new opponents?

If a player concedes, there should not be 'penalties' for not having finished the game.

If there are problems with someone returning a turn, there should be a facility for an automatic forfiet.

But please no penalties for admitting you lost and surrendering.

I agree. I suppose to up the stakes you could agree to fight to bitter end at the beginning of a game to then see how long each player could hold out, but otherwise I don't see the necessity.

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

Personally, I think that it is acceptable to concede a game.  If I am clearly beat, then is it not better to acknowledge the superiority of my opponent and try again?  Or find new opponents?

If a player concedes, there should not be 'penalties' for not having finished the game.

If there are problems with someone returning a turn, there should be a facility for an automatic forfiet.

But please no penalties for admitting you lost and surrendering.

I agree. I've been in both situations in unwinnable games by 1942 and I didn't mind when my opponent surrendered early. This game is too consuming to expect a guy to play on when all hope is lost.

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

Personally, I think that it is acceptable to concede a game.  If I am clearly beat, then is it not better to acknowledge the superiority of my opponent and try again?  Or find new opponents?

If a player concedes, there should not be 'penalties' for not having finished the game.

If there are problems with someone returning a turn, there should be a facility for an automatic forfiet.

But please no penalties for admitting you lost and surrendering.

I agree. I've been in both situations in unwinnable games by 1942 and I didn't mind when my opponent surrendered early. This game is too consuming to expect a guy to play on when all hope is lost.

However, if this were not the case, this could be a great occasion to give players the option to continue vs. AIO if player(s) drop(s) for whatever reason - give the guys a chance to play it to the end and see how it turns out - who knows, there could be some surprises if play were allowed to continue this way. [:'(]

Of course, this may not solve the ladder/ranking problem, but what do you think about it? [:)]

Logically, if a player surrenders, he acknowledges his defeat. So if he surrenders, it should be consider a defeat for him and a victory for his opponent.

If steve does a great job with the AIO, maybe the AIO can have a rating
 
 

The ending of a game early should be put to a vote, not by one side surrendering, IMHO.

ORIGINAL: gridley

The ending of a game early should be put to a vote, not by one side surrendering, IMHO.

Many players will just drop from the game when they see things going bad, it happens all the time with other LAN games I know.

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

If steve does a great job with the AIO, maybe the AIO can have a rating

No new tasks.[:-]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


No new tasks.[:-]

I just meant that we could log the many losses against the excellent AIO so that it would have a proper rung on the ladder.

Please don't hurt me! [&o]

[:D]

ORIGINAL: Snydly

I vote Froonp Site as the MWiF fan site [:)]

Thanks, that's kind, but my website is only informative, there is nothing such as all what abj9562 proposed. But I'm interested in participating to the WiF Wiki.

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

Personally, I think that it is acceptable to concede a game.  If I am clearly beat, then is it not better to acknowledge the superiority of my opponent and try again?  Or find new opponents?

If a player concedes, there should not be 'penalties' for not having finished the game.

If there are problems with someone returning a turn, there should be a facility for an automatic forfiet.

But please no penalties for admitting you lost and surrendering.

My opinion is that only the allied player should be allowed to ask for a game to be stopped.
The Axis side have all the fun from 1939 to 1941/1942, and then the allies have a chance to have "their fun". So an axis side stopping the game in 40/41 because he feels he is beated spoils the allies' fun.

Now, if the allies are OK, this is another matter, but the axis have to pay the price of his daring strategies if they fail, otherwise axis player try foolish things more and more, and drop from games that fail.

ORIGINAL: gridley
The ending of a game early should be put to a vote, not by one side surrendering, IMHO.

Why on Earth would one side want to continue playing a game that is lost? Assuming players are not twisted megalomaniacs fearing a gallows, why would they prolong losing? If you want to see the game played to the bitter end, you have to offer some motivation. Say once the game is over, switch sides and see who held out the longest. Though some winning strategies require great risk that can early on render a game 'unwinnable' if they fail. You might consider paying an opponent to play for no reason beyond allowing you to roll him up. Teach your girlfriend the game! Maybe she'll let you do it. Stick to solitaire play is my advice.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

My opinion is that only the allied player should be allowed to ask for a game to be stopped.
The Axis side have all the fun from 1939 to 1941/1942, and then the allies have a chance to have "their fun". So an axis side stopping the game in 40/41 because he feels he is beated spoils the allies' fun.

Now, if the allies are OK, this is another matter, but the axis have to pay the price of his daring strategies if they fail, otherwise axis player try foolish things more and more, and drop from games that fail.

I kind of see your point, but for a ladder game, hopefully the fact that your rating is at stake will keep people honest.

Not that this is something that can be done in MWiF, but we have a rule here in our ftf games that the Allies have the right to accept the end of the game and the surrender of the Axis.  It kinda sucks for the Allies to have to play defense through 1942, and then if the Axis dont like their position, they just want to start a new game?  The Allies would rarely have the pleasure to be on the offense for long.  The end game can be very exciting.  Many(most) of our games make it to J/A'45.  I was even in a WiFcon game with Steve Balk(on my team) vs Paul's Canada team where the game was decided on the last impulse of J/A'45...Paul's team won, but it was awesome!!!
 
What I/we? are talking about here is the pleasure to be part of a ladder community/rating community.  As Micheljq wrote, and I have experienced as well...that in LAN games many players drop without warning when their position becomes a bad one.  Some of the pro-AI posters have expressed that as one reason they prefer an AI.  I know there can be many good reasons to stop a game...if one side has to(or asks to) stop with the OK of their opponent(s), then that should not count against either side.  I dont know how to quantify all this, and I'm sure there are many on this forum that have been involved with ladders/ratings elsewhere...but I do think that quiters without good reason other than they have a bad position should be penalized and they should aquire a reputation so other players do not fall victim to them in future.
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