Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:33 pm**

ORIGINAL: Ron James

Do I need a password for that link

yes, head to http://forum.computerharpoon.com and investigate the beta access.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:28 pm**

Darren thanks for that. can I just clarify the beta hosted on the matrix site is not the latest? Given that this is ,I think usually the first port of call would it not avoid confusion to keep this up to date or else perhaps a redirection to the current version.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:39 pm**

ORIGINAL: mgarnett

I liked micro-managing at one point, but now I just find that sort of stuff too tedious so for me, the current behaviour is more to my liking.

I'm a relatively new Harpooner but I've been playing computer wargames for many years. My first Harpoon was on the Commodore Amiga of all things. Anyway, it seems to me, agin IMHO, that some people want the micro managing capabilities of the old H2/H3 days and don't like the paradigm shift that the new version has taken. I can understand this disappointment but as a player who likes the new direction, I'm glad the paradigm shift was made. As the saying goes, you can't keep all the people happy all of the time.

I'm sure that I must have explained it badly. [:)]

The game currently can and always has been able to accommodate your 'new style' of play (i.e. let the AI handle it). However, the entire point is that the game should be able to accommodate all styles of play, since this has always been the way it was. H2/H3 allowed you to play the game with the AI in control and also allowed you to micro-manage if you so chose.

Taking away and reducing game capabilities is not an improvement in my book. Adding new capabilities is considered upgrading. Of course, others have their opinions, too, but this is what is happening.

It isn't a paradigm shift. For example, if your car decides that it will only start on odd-numbered hours, the car isn't "broken" because it still starts. However, it is definitely buggy because you can't do what you want to do when you want to do it.

If that isn't sufficient explanation for you, I guess that we'll just have to hold different opinions. [:)]

Still looking for that first game of MP with you. [8D]

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:42 pm**

ORIGINAL: TonyE

ORIGINAL: Ron James

Do I need a password for that link

yes, head to http://forum.computerharpoon.com and investigate the beta access.

Any process that needs to hide behind a username and password is not open and public.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:14 pm**

ORIGINAL: FreekS

I also have an issue with 'the List'; in particular with the recent trend to describe it as a sort of heresy performed by a single individual who aims for the games demise, or something.
I see myself as co-author of the list, having verified most of the testfiles and bug reports and authored some. The vast majority reflect bugs or unwanted (by us) behaviour of the AI, oftentimes compared with the harpoon3.6 version, which lacked some nice features (such as MultiPlayer) but was awfully good in making the AI agressive towards a player.

[snip]

But I'm really puzzled by an attitude that looks like: "There is a list of bugs which may hurt sales and therefore lets just denigrate it and its authors, and the problem will go away". Anybody thats worked on any kind of product development (and I have all my career) thows thats just plain stupid.

It is the mark of pure and simple desperation to find someone to blame and is an utter waste of time. Some folks just fail to understand that the bugs exist and will occur whether or not anyone makes up a list or talks about them.

Trying to affix blame is just ludicrous. AGSI owns the game code. Thereby, AGSI owns the bugs and are the only persons capable of fixing them. It doesn't matter who reports them, Stephen Hawking or Bill Gates. They will be around until they are fixed. Until then, there isn't much to talk about in ANW except the poor behaviours.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:46 pm**

ORIGINAL: FreekS

ORIGINAL: Bucks

I don't wish to come across as an ogre, after sinking years into this stuff, I have an issue with the "list", although it doesn't seem to have deterred you from jumping back onboard. I haven't noticed any other games where a member of that very game's "community" takes it upon himself to compose such a work. It may not have put you off, but we can't start to measure what loss of potential customers it may have had an effect on. People need to be aware that the speed of development is closely tied to the success of the game in financial terms. At present AGSI is relying on a small group of people who give up their time to work on a project they believe in and I have to wonder if some people understand what's really going on.
Darren

I also have an issue with 'the List'; in particular with the recent trend to describe it as a sort of heresy performed by a single individual who aims for the games demise, or something.
I see myself as co-author of the list, having verified most of the testfiles and bug reports and authored some. The vast majority reflect bugs or unwanted (by us) behaviour of the AI, oftentimes compared with the harpoon3.6 version, which lacked some nice features (such as MultiPlayer) but was awfully good in making the AI agressive towards a player.

I applaud Russell who from 393 (or earlier) to 394 did a LOT of working with all members of the community to get rid of a significant number of bugs. Unfortunately some new ones (re-)occurred and some old ones were not fixed.

I recommend that the active Harpoon brains cooperate to jointly prioritise 'the List'. I suspect we will find 5-10 issues that are high priority for people, and many of the others may become low priority accepted behaviour.

But I'm really puzzled by an attitude that looks like: "There is a list of bugs which may hurt sales and therefore lets just denigrate it and its authors, and the problem will go away". Anybody thats worked on any kind of product development (and I have all my career) thows thats just plain stupid.

Freek

I concur with Freek.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:36 pm**

ORIGINAL: cuthbo2001

Darren thanks for that. can I just clarify the beta hosted on the matrix site is not the latest? Given that this is ,I think usually the first port of call would it not avoid confusion to keep this up to date or else perhaps a redirection to the current version.

Cuth,

While the Beta is in progressive testing, the latest version will always be available from the AGSI site. I've yet to download anything from Matrix being so close to this and I'm only assuming that Matrix are hosting the last official release Patch rather than beta versions. (I may be wrong, again I haven't used the Matrix site).

Cheers

Darren

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:22 am**

ORIGINAL: TonyE

ORIGINAL: Ron James

Do I need a password for that link

yes, head to http://forum.computerharpoon.com and investigate the beta access.

Ok cool I will go take a look

Matrix Games Forums

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