Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

WitP and WitP-AE are like really good bottles of Red Wine;

ORIGINAL: IndyShark

I don't buy many games, but AE is going to be one of them. Is it expensive? Yes, but I've purchased many games and stopped playing them after a few days or a week or two. WITP was super. I am a little anxious about the detail in AE, but I hope it's as much fun as WITP with better graphics and more features. I'll purchase it and be very happy when it arrives.

ORIGINAL: MadmanRick

You know, I've yet to play a perfect video game. I've purchased many dogs in my time (Patriot by 360 Pacific comes to mind) and I've purchased many other games that have left me dissatisfied (Close Combat - Modern Tactics anyone?). However, I have never once criticized the company for their pricing or whatever. I've always sort of figured that you live and learn mostly through trial and error. I can tell you this much, if WitP left you unhappy, then AE at ANY price probably won't do anything to help you along the path to gaming nirvana. WitP and AE are very particular types of games, they are never (and are not meant to) going to appeal to the masses. They are as close to an electronic board wargame as I've seen (as far as detail goes) and we all know how popular those are now.

Rick

ORIGINAL: vettim89

There has been a lot of noise on this Forum lately that quite frankly is getting under my skin. I would like to make a few points

1. First it has been said that WiTP is a "broken game" and that AE is necessary just to fix it. Ergo some think the pricing schedule is unfair because Matrix is just making people pay to have a functional WiTP. That is untrue; WiTP is not a broken game. It is without a doubt the best computer game I have ever played. Besides being incrdibly engaging, it is also very stable. I have experienced few or any crashes with this game and those that I did experience were my fault not the games (alt-Tabbing messes up most games). Look at the AAR Forums and you can see hundreds of players who have devoted thousands of hours of game time to WiTP. If it was truly broken, do you think that would be true? Yes, there are some problems but they are not so horrible so as to declare the game broken.

2. AE was started and developed by WiTP players for WiTP players who loved the game but wanted to see some of the issues with the original addressed. Incredibly Matrix Games, was responsive to this group and now we are on the verge of having AE. First, kudos to Matrix for allowing this project to go forward. Truth is some of the major issues with WiTP could have been fixed with a patch and we would still have the game we had before. Instead, Matrix let Henderson Field Games go hog wild and now we will have a game that not only fixes issues like the leader bug and pilot pool exhaustion but also will add layers of depth and realism that are making most of us drool at the possibilities. Two points here: first AE was always aimed at people currently playing WiTP and second I think you would have a hard time finding any company (not just a game company) who is as responsive to their customers as Matrix

3. For those of you trying to make the point that the WiTP/AE bundle is too costly either for you or for you to recruit your friends to play, the game is probably not for you or them. Any serious Gronard with any interest in the PTO probably bought WITP years ago. My point being that this is not a casual war game. It is intense and very difficult to learn and play. If you or your friends need to be "talked into" buying either game, then it is probably not the game for you. You/they will probably be turned off by the complexity and give up on the game. I do not mean this to be a put down. I am just saying these games were designed for a very specific but small audience. There are plenty of PTO games out there that are less complex and more games than simulations. There are only a few of us who truly enjoy this type of hard core game/simulation.

4. Lastly on the economics side. As a small business owner I understand what it means to try to remain viable in this economy. Matrix is not some huge development studio like EA Games. It is a small niche market company. y default their games are going to cost a lot more than those aimed at a broader market. I am sure that the brain trust at Matrix spent considerable time trying to decide the pricing. If you feel you are being cheated, that is your right. I on the other hand would never be so inclined to tell some one else how to run their business. Consider this: if one of my clients walked into my office and stood in the lobby talking to my other customers about how bad my prices were, I would call the cops and have them removed. Matrix is letting you go on and on without any effort to stop you. Also, poor Erik is actually respectful enough to actually try to address your concerns. Try that at any other business and I think the manager would not come out and talk to you nicely but instead have you forcefully removed. More Kudos to Matrix

ORIGINAL: mjk428


1. WitP is a broken game if you play the AI. Unless one enjoys playing against an "intelligence" that sends all their ships/subs to one spot and can't manage to keep them fueled.

Probably one of the most valid crticisms of the game. Matrix has not hesitated at all to acknowledge this fact and put a lot of man hours into AE to address it

2. Matrix is a fine company.

Concur

3. I am definitely one of the few members of the target demographic. Have been since '81. BTW, it's "Grognard" which means "grumbler".

Well that is true. We are a bunch of grumpy old men for the most part (some older than most and some grumpier than most). War gamers are complainers by nature. Would be interestesting to see some psychology type do a study of the personality characteristics of grognards

4. As much as I want Matrix to succeed, their business is theirs to mind, not mine. They've chosen to provide a public forum and they seem to welcome constructive feedback.

A stance I for one beleive that should be applauded

ORIGINAL: vettim89

There has been a lot of noise on this Forum lately that quite frankly is getting under my skin. I would like to make a few points

1. First it has been said that WiTP is a "broken game" and that AE is necessary just to fix it. Ergo some think the pricing schedule is unfair because Matrix is just making people pay to have a functional WiTP. That is untrue; WiTP is not a broken game. It is without a doubt the best computer game I have ever played. Besides being incrdibly engaging, it is also very stable. I have experienced few or any crashes with this game and those that I did experience were my fault not the games (alt-Tabbing messes up most games). Look at the AAR Forums and you can see hundreds of players who have devoted thousands of hours of game time to WiTP. If it was truly broken, do you think that would be true? Yes, there are some problems but they are not so horrible so as to declare the game broken.

2. AE was started and developed by WiTP players for WiTP players who loved the game but wanted to see some of the issues with the original addressed. Incredibly Matrix Games, was responsive to this group and now we are on the verge of having AE. First, kudos to Matrix for allowing this project to go forward. Truth is some of the major issues with WiTP could have been fixed with a patch and we would still have the game we had before. Instead, Matrix let Henderson Field Games go hog wild and now we will have a game that not only fixes issues like the leader bug and pilot pool exhaustion but also will add layers of depth and realism that are making most of us drool at the possibilities. Two points here: first AE was always aimed at people currently playing WiTP and second I think you would have a hard time finding any company (not just a game company) who is as responsive to their customers as Matrix

3. For those of you trying to make the point that the WiTP/AE bundle is too costly either for you or for you to recruit your friends to play, the game is probably not for you or them. Any serious Gronard with any interest in the PTO probably bought WITP years ago. My point being that this is not a casual war game. It is intense and very difficult to learn and play. If you or your friends need to be "talked into" buying either game, then it is probably not the game for you. You/they will probably be turned off by the complexity and give up on the game. I do not mean this to be a put down. I am just saying these games were designed for a very specific but small audience. There are plenty of PTO games out there that are less complex and more games than simulations. There are only a few of us who truly enjoy this type of hard core game/simulation.

4. Lastly on the economics side. As a small business owner I understand what it means to try to remain viable in this economy. Matrix is not some huge development studio like EA Games. It is a small niche market company. y default their games are going to cost a lot more than those aimed at a broader market. I am sure that the brain trust at Matrix spent considerable time trying to decide the pricing. If you feel you are being cheated, that is your right. I on the other hand would never be so inclined to tell some one else how to run their business. Consider this: if one of my clients walked into my office and stood in the lobby talking to my other customers about how bad my prices were, I would call the cops and have them removed. Matrix is letting you go on and on without any effort to stop you. Also, poor Erik is actually respectful enough to actually try to address your concerns. Try that at any other business and I think the manager would not come out and talk to you nicely but instead have you forcefully removed. More Kudos to Matrix

ORIGINAL: vettim89

There has been a lot of noise on this Forum lately that quite frankly is getting under my skin. I would like to make a few points

1. First it has been said that WiTP is a "broken game" and that AE is necessary just to fix it. Ergo some think the pricing schedule is unfair because Matrix is just making people pay to have a functional WiTP. That is untrue; WiTP is not a broken game. It is without a doubt the best computer game I have ever played. Besides being incrdibly engaging, it is also very stable. I have experienced few or any crashes with this game and those that I did experience were my fault not the games (alt-Tabbing messes up most games). Look at the AAR Forums and you can see hundreds of players who have devoted thousands of hours of game time to WiTP. If it was truly broken, do you think that would be true? Yes, there are some problems but they are not so horrible so as to declare the game broken.

2. AE was started and developed by WiTP players for WiTP players who loved the game but wanted to see some of the issues with the original addressed. Incredibly Matrix Games, was responsive to this group and now we are on the verge of having AE. First, kudos to Matrix for allowing this project to go forward. Truth is some of the major issues with WiTP could have been fixed with a patch and we would still have the game we had before. Instead, Matrix let Henderson Field Games go hog wild and now we will have a game that not only fixes issues like the leader bug and pilot pool exhaustion but also will add layers of depth and realism that are making most of us drool at the possibilities. Two points here: first AE was always aimed at people currently playing WiTP and second I think you would have a hard time finding any company (not just a game company) who is as responsive to their customers as Matrix

3. For those of you trying to make the point that the WiTP/AE bundle is too costly either for you or for you to recruit your friends to play, the game is probably not for you or them. Any serious Gronard with any interest in the PTO probably bought WITP years ago. My point being that this is not a casual war game. It is intense and very difficult to learn and play. If you or your friends need to be "talked into" buying either game, then it is probably not the game for you. You/they will probably be turned off by the complexity and give up on the game. I do not mean this to be a put down. I am just saying these games were designed for a very specific but small audience. There are plenty of PTO games out there that are less complex and more games than simulations. There are only a few of us who truly enjoy this type of hard core game/simulation.

4. Lastly on the economics side. As a small business owner I understand what it means to try to remain viable in this economy. Matrix is not some huge development studio like EA Games. It is a small niche market company. y default their games are going to cost a lot more than those aimed at a broader market. I am sure that the brain trust at Matrix spent considerable time trying to decide the pricing. If you feel you are being cheated, that is your right. I on the other hand would never be so inclined to tell some one else how to run their business. Consider this: if one of my clients walked into my office and stood in the lobby talking to my other customers about how bad my prices were, I would call the cops and have them removed. Matrix is letting you go on and on without any effort to stop you. Also, poor Erik is actually respectful enough to actually try to address your concerns. Try that at any other business and I think the manager would not come out and talk to you nicely but instead have you forcefully removed. More Kudos to Matrix

ORIGINAL: aprezto

I love that I can use the wife's 'price per wear' arguement justifying the cost of the new pair of manatee skin boots and tiger fur jacket, with WitP and beat her hands down.
Of course, she doesn't think the arguement is valid because the low price per use is indicative of the time I have wasted with 'that bloody game'.
No one else here seems to have raised the friendships you strike up while playing a game that can last years. I have had the pleasure of butting heads with some fine gentlemen that I am very unlikely to ever meet in person. Yet I have been privvy to their highs and lows, been granted knowledge of information that only close friends would be, and been able to divulge stuff that I'd have thought outside my comfort zone, before this game.
So matrix may be making games for grognards, but compaired to the type of people you tend to find in other multiplay arenas, the ones who gravitate to this and other games matrix make, seem to be fine folk. Probably an unplanned for, but welcome outcome of their productions.
If it costs me an extra wheelbarrow full of New Zealand dollars, well then so be it.

ORIGINAL: John Lansford
for her 75 gallon turtle tank.