Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:44 pm**

ORIGINAL: RevRick

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

ORIGINAL: Zacktar

My favorite JFK speech, and one of the best by any American president:

Any idea what the "other things" were?

From earlier in the speech....

Those who came before us made certain that this country rode the first waves of the industrial revolution, the first waves of modern invention, and the first wave of nuclear power, and this generation does not intend to founder in the backwash of the coming age of space. We mean to be a part of it--we mean to lead it. For the eyes of the world now look into space, to the moon and to the planets beyond, and we have vowed that we shall not see it governed by a hostile flag of conquest, but by a banner of freedom and peace. We have vowed that we shall not see space filled with weapons of mass destruction, but with instruments of knowledge and understanding.

Yet the vows of this Nation can only be fulfilled if we in this Nation are first, and, therefore, we intend to be first. In short, our leadership in science and industry, our hopes for peace and security, our obligations to ourselves as well as others, all require us to make this effort, to solve these mysteries, to solve them for the good of all men, and to become the world's leading space-faring nation.

We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say that we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that man has made in extending his writ around this globe of ours.

Thanks. Always wondered what those other things were.

Posted: **Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:29 am**

I was a junior in college and working as a longshoreman in Galveston that summer.  I remember getting home about 3pm, and having to wait until 7:30 or 8:00 when the landing occurred.  Waiting the additional six hours or so until Armstrong climbed down seemed like an eternity.  I'll never forget the feeling of "we've got some guys on the freaking' moon!"

Memories bend a bit over the years.

The landing was at 2017 Zulu 20 July, or 1617 EDT

Armstrong stepped onto the Lunar surface at 0256 Zulu 21 July, 2256 EDT July 20.

I was in 5th grade and we saw the walk on TV at school at approx 1300. (Not sure Daylight Savings had been invented back then)

Posted: **Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:03 am**

You're giving away your age with that story Jeff.

I can back you up on the timing as I was also in school and after deciding that the library wasn't big enough to fit the entire school crowding around the only TV set available, they sent us all home to watch the landing on our own TVs. This was early in the afternoon and with the unexpected holiday as a bonus, it was a day I still remember.

We must all be getting old. Last time I told that story to my work mates, I got the incredulous response "You ACTUALLY WATCHED the moon landing, we weren't even born!!!"

Posted: **Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:23 am**

I have NASA TV on most days, espichaly when the shuttle is up and watch them live all day, well while I am working on stuff it's on, and I am a big fan of it all as well, I do hope that Obama decides to go ahead with it all, the Comishion revieweing maned space flight will make its recomendations to the Presedent in Augast, as it stands now it Constlation could be seriously delayed.

I doubt they will cancel Aeries I its realy prety far along in development and we nead a way to get into space besides paying the Russians for rides, and we are going to have to do that for 5 more years untill Aeries I is ready.

The iuse is realy if their going to fund Aeries V, if they delay that were screwed, I would like to live to see them land on Mars, and if they dink around to much more...

During Obamas run for the presedency he was of the lot the least keen on the space program, he has changed his tune somewhat since taking offfice, so again when the Norm Augastine comishion on maned space flight finishes its review we will see what he decides to do.

Orion on the Aeris I.

.............

LRO Has taken picks of about all of the Apollo landing sights sine she started her mapping of the Moon in June.

Posted: **Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:06 am**

I was 16 and watched it in the den with the rest of my family, one of those moments you just don't forget. America needs to do great things.

Posted: **Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:06 am**

How long till a "Space Elevator" is any real hope? That is what we really need for efficient travel into orbit, isn't it?

Posted: **Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:10 am**

ORIGINAL: LST Express

I was 16 and watched it in the den with the rest of my family, one of those moments you just don't forget. America needs to do great things.

I agree, the thing of it is though as I follow the space stsation, and thats easy to watching NASA TV, is that were not alone in this, Russia is a big part of this now, so is the ESA and Japan, not to mention China and India.

Russia was always a big part of it if you think about it, we had to race somebody after all, now were going to nead them to carry us for a while, interesting that.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:51 am**

There is still alot of bad feelings over the cancelled CF 105 Avro Arrow interceptor programme here in Canada, mainly because the PM at the time, Diefenbaker, was just another spineless politician we tend to embrace up here an cancelled it due to cost overruns, poor military advice, and pressure from US aircraft manufacturers. With the cancellation of the programme, American aircraft industry headhunters were on the plants premises like flies on s--t and recruited basically every Canadian engineer. The only good to come out of the whole darn mess was that it was these engineers who had a direct impact on the Space Race. Grumman and Lockheed were two of the big recruiters and they built a large proportion of the vehicles used in space, like the LM.

ARROW

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:45 am**

The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter has imaged the Apollo landing sites from its ordit of about 50 km, low enough to pick out the lunar module descent stages left on the surface.

You can see the pictures here

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:28 pm**

ORIGINAL: Howard Mitchell

The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter has imaged the Apollo landing sites from its ordit of about 50 km, low enough to pick out the lunar module descent stages left on the surface.

You can see the pictures here

Yeah...even if we haven't gone back I guess we can admire our handiwork from orbit.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:48 pm**

They're all fakes, I tells ya! Photoshopped by The Man!

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:49 pm**

ORIGINAL: Terminus

They're all fakes, I tells ya! Photoshopped by The Man!

Fascinating little guest piece by Tom Wolfe (author of The Right Stuff) in the NY Times today (I don't post links in the forum, but it will be in their free archive for some time).)

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:46 pm**

Very cool piece, even if some of his points are debatable...

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:06 pm**

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Very cool piece, even if some of his points are debatable...

You know? Maybe even more than "some," but I really liked his focus on the lack of philosophers in what is, at its heart, a philosophical undertaking.

I mean, when I was a little kid, astronomy was my "thing." The whole idea of the moon, planets, stars and galaxies out there to be explored and understood as a way of finding the real meaning of who and what we are and how we relate to everyrhing with a capital "E" was fascinating to me.

Then I discovered science fiction, and that gave the whole thing flavor and literature.

Wolfe's little Wernher von Braun paradigm about "in order for humanity to survive, it must find other places to live than just Earth, which is inevitably doomed" might have been the best part of the piece.

Too bad so few think of humanity, life and science that way anymore...

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:11 pm**

Nobody did in the early sixties either. It was all about beating the Reds, no matter what.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:20 pm**

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Nobody did in the early sixties either.

Don't say that to the likes of Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein et al. Even Vonnegut when he wasn't stoned (which wasn't often).

Von Braun had that kind of idealistic bent (unfortunately, I suspect it had a little of the "Look, Mr. President! I can walk!" influence to it).

Ah, well, maybe after the Chinese colonize Mars we'll get back around to doing something again...

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:22 pm**

Sorry, I should have said "nobody with a big pile of money and therefore the say-so".

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:23 pm**

That was part of it T , no doubt. But I seem to recall that there was so much more to it.....Then again I was a child in the 60's. But it really seemed to be more optimism than fear involved. (Not there I don't remeber a lot of fear, two of my 1st childhood memories were the Berlin wall going up on my 5th birthday , and the Cuban missile crisis -members of my family being called to their reserve units).

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:33 pm**

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

How long till a "Space Elevator" is any real hope? That is what we really need for efficient travel into orbit, isn't it?

Forever, probably: new calculations show that even projected carbon-nanotubular-fiber cable probably isn't going to strong enough...

There is some new speculation that a "space balloon" structure is possible now... some sort of huge tethered superballoon that would cut out the need for 1 of 3 stages and cut launch costs by about 30%. i have only seen one passing reference to it so far, though.

Posted: **Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:34 pm**

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
But it really seemed to be more optimism than fear involved.

This is right on the money, big fella. The US was in bad need of successes and heroes lest it slide into the same postwar doldrums England had. George Orwell would have been the best commentator of the times, but he was gone. Edward R. Murrow was strangling on lung cancer. There was no voice. There was little hope. Time droned on.

Kennedy's Moon push set up an obstacle course to be run that only cost money. The masses' effort was not required. Victory was palpable, like Spaniards planting the flag in the New World. Landing on the Moon was a victory that allowed Americans to sit in their Barcaloungers and watch the conquest of the universe. They felt much better then. Kind of like the British got to feeling when the Beatles came along.

America was revitalized where it needed it, in the pride department. The future was wide open, the stars were ours for the taking.

Then, we closed the door.

"When those first creatures unbent their backs
And cast their longing gaze at the sky,
A comet of hope shot across that most holy of nights.

But, when the question that came to them formed itself
Not as 'How?' but as 'Why?'
The light of the stars started slowly to fade from their sight.

It's time we begin that long journey
From what we've been to what we must be,
If once again we hope to stand in the glory of dawn's early light."

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