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I would like to think that when you press that "get new pilot" button on the squadron screen, the pilot taken from the reserve pool added to the squadron will have good skills in the area of the squadron's function. If the squadron is a level bombing squadron, the new pilot would have level bombing skills, or if the squadron was a carrier divebomber squadron, then the pilot would have been trained in naval divebombing. I certainly think it is reasonable to expect this because of the addition of all those pilot skill areas (see manual p.145, at bottom). But I don't think it says for sure. However, it is reasonable to believe that the new "Training Groups" can train pilots for skill in these indivdual skill areas. And, once done training, dump a bunch of newly trained carrier divebomber pilots (for example) into the Reserve Pool. In my mind, this is a significant step forward for managing pilots.

Kurt

ORIGINAL: kmussler

I would like to think that when you press that "get new pilot" button on the squadron screen, the pilot taken from the reserve pool added to the squadron will have good skills in the area of the squadron's function. If the squadron is a level bombing squadron, the new pilot would have level bombing skills, or if the squadron was a carrier divebomber squadron, then the pilot would have been trained in naval divebombing. I certainly think it is reasonable to expect this because of the addition of all those pilot skill areas (see manual p.145, at bottom). But I don't think it says for sure. However, it is reasonable to believe that the new "Training Groups" can train pilots for skill in these indivdual skill areas. And, once done training, dump a bunch of newly trained carrier divebomber pilots (for example) into the Reserve Pool. In my mind, this is a significant step forward for managing pilots.

Kurt

That's my point, what's to prevent getting a good bomber pilot when filling out a fighter group or that fighter ace you sent to training command showing up as a transport pilot when you get a replacement pilot?

Well, since I'm not sure that the system doesn't work like I think it should, I'm going to wait to see how it actually works first before I ask for changes.  To me, the new system is significantly better that the old one, but being able to select pilots from the reserve pool might be nice.   It is, however, another layer of micro-management.  If the "select new pilot" button selects by skill type too, then I'm good, even if I can't pick an exact guy from the pool.
 
Kurt

For the record it was asked on the devs forum (at least twice) and the only responses (prior to the posting in the AAR) was from other testers saying they asked and only speculation that it didnt work, so lacking a response from the air team, I posted the information I had.

Yamato Hugger,
I have no problem with what you reported back then. The devs openness about the progress of the testing makes it inevitable that some things that were intended to work, don't work properly at first, and then get fixed later. And all stages of this progression was reported in the forums. It's also inevitable that someone or another gets accidentally left out of the reporting loop. I was a programmer once upon a time. I understand bug hunting and reporting snafus. [:D]

Kurt

How are the training groups identified?

As The Elf said, it works. He's the Air Team Lead and should know.

ORIGINAL: Barb

Elf: I thought a tester was the person who has to make himself sure the things works properly [:D]

Me too...

ORIGINAL: pad152

ORIGINAL: kmussler

I would like to think that when you press that "get new pilot" button on the squadron screen, the pilot taken from the reserve pool added to the squadron will have good skills in the area of the squadron's function. If the squadron is a level bombing squadron, the new pilot would have level bombing skills, or if the squadron was a carrier divebomber squadron, then the pilot would have been trained in naval divebombing. I certainly think it is reasonable to expect this because of the addition of all those pilot skill areas (see manual p.145, at bottom). But I don't think it says for sure. However, it is reasonable to believe that the new "Training Groups" can train pilots for skill in these indivdual skill areas. And, once done training, dump a bunch of newly trained carrier divebomber pilots (for example) into the Reserve Pool. In my mind, this is a significant step forward for managing pilots.

Kurt

That's my point, what's to prevent getting a good bomber pilot when filling out a fighter group or that fighter ace you sent to training command showing up as a transport pilot when you get a replacement pilot?

Pilots are sorted by type. A bomber pilot will return to a bomber unit once designated as a "named" Bomber pilot.

ORIGINAL: pad152

I'm some what suprised the option to select a pilot when getting a pilot replacement wasn't implemented, I always throught it was odd that you can get an ace when getting a replacement for a Glen then have to settle with average pilot when filling out your carrier air groups! All the training in the world doesn't mean anything if you can't get the best pilots for your carrier air groups.[8|]

Right now there is no capability to specify a specific pilot as a replacement.

ORIGINAL: viberpol

BUMP

Can you please describe in more details how the system of training/training command/increasing the qualities with veterans/pilot reserve/get pilot (from where?) really works in AE?
This is crucial for all JFBs.

"The world wants to know"... [:D]
It seems we have some small dissonance here...

Read my post above....

Right now the code works with a priority. When a replacement is requested, the first place it looks is for a Reserve pilot of the type requested (Bomber, Fighter, etc.). Then it looks for a pilot who has not been detailed to an operational unit yet, in other words a fully trained replacement. Finally it will take a pilot from the training command from the most senior class of students.

Pilots sent to the training command as "instructors", are considered, off sea-duty and on a tour back home. In the reserve pool they are designated as "training Command" pilots and cannot be selected for anything. They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.

There are many additional cool ideas that were not able to be implemented, but the basic premise is in place. It works. In the future this feature will be expanded and improved. This was one of the last big ticket items I wanted to implement, and we just got in under the deadline. For now think of this as a way to sideline your top pilots and have them contribute to the improvement/consistency of your recruits, while preserving them from attrition. The first thin I do (within a month of the start of a game). Is begin transferring 10 top pilots to the training command to begin a healthy turnover and start reinforcing my training command.

I have other questions in order to have all elements to fully understand how the training system works for pilots.

1/ how is it possible to specialise the training of pilots in a specific domain: dive bombing, torpedo bombing, air carrier fighters and so on... ?
2/ How do you quantify the effect of training instructors ?
3/ What is the best: put the instructors in the general pool or in a training group ?

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: viberpol

BUMP

Can you please describe in more details how the system of training/training command/increasing the qualities with veterans/pilot reserve/get pilot (from where?) really works in AE?
This is crucial for all JFBs.

"The world wants to know"... [:D]
It seems we have some small dissonance here...

Read my post above....

Right now the code works with a priority. When a replacement is requested, the first place it looks is for a Reserve pilot of the type requested (Bomber, Fighter, etc.). Then it looks for a pilot who has not been detailed to an operational unit yet, in other words a fully trained replacement. Finally it will take a pilot from the training command from the most senior class of students.

Pilots sent to the training command as "instructors", are considered, off sea-duty and on a tour back home. In the reserve pool they are designated as "training Command" pilots and cannot be selected for anything. They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.

There are many additional cool ideas that were not able to be implemented, but the basic premise is in place. It works. In the future this feature will be expanded and improved. This was one of the last big ticket items I wanted to implement, and we just got in under the deadline. For now think of this as a way to sideline your top pilots and have them contribute to the improvement/consistency of your recruits, while preserving them from attrition. The first thin I do (within a month of the start of a game). Is begin transferring 10 top pilots to the training command to begin a healthy turnover and start reinforcing my training command.

Thanks... for everything [&o]

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: viberpol

BUMP

Can you please describe in more details how the system of training/training command/increasing the qualities with veterans/pilot reserve/get pilot (from where?) really works in AE?
This is crucial for all JFBs.

"The world wants to know"... [:D]
It seems we have some small dissonance here...

Read my post above....

Right now the code works with a priority. When a replacement is requested, the first place it looks is for a Reserve pilot of the type requested (Bomber, Fighter, etc.). Then it looks for a pilot who has not been detailed to an operational unit yet, in other words a fully trained replacement. Finally it will take a pilot from the training command from the most senior class of students.

Pilots sent to the training command as "instructors", are considered, off sea-duty and on a tour back home. In the reserve pool they are designated as "training Command" pilots and cannot be selected for anything. They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.

There are many additional cool ideas that were not able to be implemented, but the basic premise is in place. It works. In the future this feature will be expanded and improved. This was one of the last big ticket items I wanted to implement, and we just got in under the deadline. For now think of this as a way to sideline your top pilots and have them contribute to the improvement/consistency of your recruits, while preserving them from attrition. The first thin I do (within a month of the start of a game). Is begin transferring 10 top pilots to the training command to begin a healthy turnover and start reinforcing my training command.

good to know the feature of sending experienced pilots back to act as instructors works, but now another question: is it worth to do so? [:D] While the training order in WITP also "worked", I guess 95% of the WITP players thought it wouldn´t be worth it to set your squadrons to training just to reach 55 exp after 5 months.

So let´s say you´ve sent back 20 high exp pilots, will it make a considerable difference in the output of trained pilots. Or 100? 200?

Thank you, TheElf, for all your comments.This systems seems to be quite complicated, but I hope it'll all sort out when we'd be able more "do thigs" than just "imagine" how it works.

I am happy to hear the pilots really do not "poof" like YH said:

Do NOT say "yes" as your pilot will go poof and it does nothing for you.

So it means, if I undersand the system correctly... that we will be able to track the instructors in the reserve pool?
Will they be visible also in this "training group" the manual mentions?

ORIGINAL: Norm3
Can you get the pilot back from the training command? After a delay? Does/can he go back to previous unit?

ORIGINAL: TheElf
They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.

How long is this due date/allocation?
And after it's up, they're ready to fight with no "Group" assigned and it's possible to pull them back to any daitai simply by clicking "get pilot" button. Right?

Please tell me I'm wrong here, but there seems to be a major enticement for "gamey behaviour". Look back at the YH screenshot in Post #11, and you'll see it takes three months of training to get a seven-point skill gain. Yet we've been told many times that "training works in AE", and one can rather quickly (2-3 months) build new pilots experience levels up from 35 to 55+, by simply using the training mission feature (i.e "on-map" training in actual airframes). That being the case, why wouldn't I just yank all my 10-12 month trainees and just train them on the map? I could probably train those 28 Exp guys up to 55 in four months instead of six. And if I do the same thing with the 7-9 month class, those 21 exp trainees can probably get to 55 in five months instead of nine.
 
Hopefully there's a huge malus in the code, which causes significant levels of attrition in both planes and pilots when sub-35 level guys fly airframes on the map. Otherwise, what appears to be a wonderful construct and a huge improvement over the WitP system will be abused into insignificance.

I suspect you can do that if you have enough on map training sqns and are willing to expend the required supply but more pilots per training sqn would mean slower rate of gain for each pilot as they fly less training ops.
 
Remember they are free from supply usage while not on map and you dont lose planes to operational losses.

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Pilots sent to the training command as "instructors", are considered, off sea-duty and on a tour back home. In the reserve pool they are designated as "training Command" pilots and cannot be selected for anything. They have a "due" date which notes when they will have completed their instructor duties and will then be available to go back to the front.

This sounds fantastic!!! [:)]

I'm sharing the frustration of the others in not quite seeing how it all fits together. I don't doubt the system works as intended. It's just that the rules don't seem to adequately describe that intent. You clearly put a lot of work into this system, and I would like to use it.

16.3 states that "some groups can be defined as 'Training Groups.' . . . These Training Groups can be loaded up with pilots from the last few months of the training roster." I gather this is where the vets go when on Training Command status. I see no description in the rules as to how this is accomplished, however. How does one take pilots from the training roster (I assume from the trainee pilot pool and not the trained pilot pool or reserve) and put them in a Training Group? Or, per 5.1.3.6, do you click on each pilot that you want to move to the Training Group, some new screen pops up, and you select Training Command (including pilots from either the trainee or trained pool)? Is it just a virtual Training Group? "Some Groups can be defined as 'Training Groups'" suggests tht you might actually desigate an on-the-map group as a Training group, bolstered by the comment that the Training Group cannot fly training missions (unnecessary verbiage if just a virtual group). Do all vets on Training Command status automatically get put into these Training Groups, or do they also have to be "loaded" into the group once in the reserve pool? What is a good ratio of vets to trainees?

Or will it just be obvious when you start playing around on the various screens - even if not explained in detail in the rules?

The training command looks like an exciting addition to the game that I will want to take full advantage of, but I think the manual does not adequately explain it. Given the time it takes to set up a game and properly execute each turn we could easily be hundreds of hours into a game only to find out that there was something about the training command we guessed wrong on.

Let me ask a few of the questions that have been on my mind in the hope of not having to understand training command through hundreds of hours of learning by trial and error:

1) can I take an ordinary unit, say a stateside based air unit, and turn it into a training command? If not, how do I create training units?
2) should I establish a training command for each type of air mission since the pilots seem to be trained for specific types of planes and missions? That is, a training command for level bombers, one for fighters, one for torpedo bombers, etc.
3) How do I get pilots into a specific training command? If I click on something like "get replacement pilots" then presumably I would get pilots already in the reserve pool first, followed by pilots that are trained, etc. which is not what I want. I would like to select pilots in training or who are trained or perhaps even pilots in the replacement pool that are at a low level.
4) How do I know when a pilot in a training command is sufficiently trained? Do I simply monitor the status of each pilot in a training command unit? Does the game give me an option to return a pilot to the replacement pool when he reaches a set level?
5) In the screenshot of the replacement pool on page 260 of the manual (sec. 16.3) I see a soviet pilot along with several US pilots. Can I have a training command unit train allied pilots as well as US pilots? Or, do I need seperate training commands for each nation?
6) since the algorithm for automatically fetching pilots described on p. 260 seems to bypass the training command does this mean that pilots in a training command are ignored, even if it means that replacement pilots with lower skill levels are automatically selected when a group needs a pilot? I would like to think that I can use training commands as a sort of "grad school" with the understanding that pilots from there would be selected before the game fetches pilots out of lower training classes or pools.