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Arralen,

I just talked to Falchion, and he thinks it was a half dozen Tigers. I still think four. Impossible is awful strong, because it happened. Incidentally, he took down a Sturmtiger frontally also. With a Sherman V. As I stated earlier, this was GER/BRIT. The version is 7.1, no mods to any penetrations or armor.

Bernie,

Good thought. I hosted, so I set prefs. Just to be sure, I checked with him to see if his were different. They were not. Both of us were at 100%. Falchion is a very close friend of over a decade, and is trustworthy. If he said they were at 100, I don't doubt it in the least.

Paul Vebber,

Is there any modifiers that could possibly explain this? Or AM I just really unlucky (or he just really lucky)?


Goblin

Originally posted by Goblin
Arralen,

I just talked to Falchion, and he thinks it was a half dozen Tigers. I still think four. Impossible is awful strong, because it happened. Incidentally, he also took down a Sturmtiger frontally also. With a Sherman V. As I stated earlier, this was GER/BRIT. The version is 7.1, no mods to any penetrations or armor.

Bernie,

Good thought. I hosted, so I set prefs. Just to be sure, I checked with him to see if his were different. They were no. Both of us were at 100%. Falchion is a very close friend odf over a decade, and is trustworthy. If he said they were at 100, I don't doubt it in the least.

Paul Vebber,

Is there any modifiers that could possibly explain this? Or AM I just really unlucky (or he just really lucky)?


Goblin

Okay, were those early or late model Tigers? I ask because the late model Tigers had front armor rated 110, while the early models were rated 105. Slopes were (respectivly) 21 and 16. Now, looking at the Sherman V we see that it had a penetration rating of 102 using the 75mm M3 gun...and HE rounds. Now, ifit was rated 102 with HE, what about AP? Even so, with just the HE, that puts the rating within 3 points of the early Tigers, and Paul did say there's a built-in range of leeway there. If it were only 10% higher that would put the PEN at 112, just enough to theoreticaly punch through that armor on either Tiger.

Nevermind what I just said about HE...those ratings were for AP. Read the wrong table.


However, I did run across something interesting...

There are two Sherman V's in the British OOB. Both are almost the same excepting for a third MG and one other thing... One of them carries 6 HEAT rounds. I'll bet that's what's been killing your Tigers.

Bernie,

That 102 is the AP round penetration. Its HE PEN is only a mesely 25. Its PEN for AP is 102(1 hex), 91(10 hexes), 78(20), 66(30), 53(40). The HE PEN is a straight 25 out to 40 hexes. That means I was losing Tigers to a base PEN of 78! They were Tiger(Early) models. Falchion says he killed half a dozen, with one to the 75mm OQF MV, but he says one was a top hit. That explains one. Three with the two vulnerable hits I remember. That leaves one (or three if you go with his estimate-I think he is remembering some 17# gun hits from the Fireflies or Achilles II). Maybe I missed it, and it was another vulnerable/top hit. I don't know. Its very frustrating, because I quite purposefully stayed away from King Tigers and Jagdtigers because they are near impossible for a Sherman V to kill. Honor amongst friends and all that,

Goblin

Originally posted by Bernie
There are two Sherman V's in the British OOB. Both are almost the same excepting for a third MG and one other thing... One of them carries 6 HEAT rounds. I'll bet that's what's been killing your Tigers.

You are a genius! I just looked, and you are correct. I bought a Medium Tank Squadron, and every third tank has 3 HEAT rnds. The command tanks. The PEN for HEAT from the M3 isn't listed on the Sherman V's PEN tables, so I never looked at its ammo loadout! Wow, something so simple, yet so aggrevating! Thanks Bernie and Arralen for trying to help me figure this out!

Goblin

One more thing to consider in this Tiger vs Sherman battle... until late in the war, the German tankers were crack veterans, while the American boys had (for the most part) just come out of school.
However, I have to agree with Yogi... even the largest juggernaut can be defeated by a small unit.

Antarctic

PS As a matter of personal opinion, I prefer not to use Shermans as AT platforms, but rather as "Tiger bait", to draw them to a nice treeline, where a couple of infantry squads are waiting. When the big cat gets real close..... poof! No more Tiger.

Me too, Antarctic.

Best to draw any large, over-gunned, up-armored beast into a tight, killing ground situation. ATG and bazooka usually do a fine job of offing just about any vehicle.

Alternately, you could pound them with arty to strip off the supporting infantry and hopefully impair their mobility. Smoke 'em up really good and move in with light AT units at close range.

Discussing Heavies with friends recently, I declared that seeing those heavy, slow, and EXPENSIVE beasts, just means that there are fewer targets (threats) I have to deal with.

Tigers, despite their thick armor, have very little slope factored in. In the current balllistic models, ricochets are common against high slope armor. (T34, et al) but rare against the slab-sided Tiger. Take out his Gun Optics, radio, engine; and it becomes a blind pillbox. :rolleyes:

Of course, any savvy Tiger commander recognizes that this beast is best in open country at long range. They should never be moved into a tight, restrictive situation unless highly motivated or well supported by infantry.