Matrix Games Forums

Careful what you wish for.

I believe to know what you mean, would be necessary to start a units turnover, found "rest base" for them, more planning (and so on) that would add more micromanagement in the game.

I'm just wondering why a game so detailed does not take into account the deseases for the ground units.
It is not a claim, it is a question [:)]

Because there was ungodly amount of complaints the way it was before and even through our own testing so...

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Because there was ungodly amount of complaints the way it was before and even through our own testing so...

It's not on/off-switch, I hope? [8D] I suggest 20% cap for malaria effects. That is still lot, but minor compared to WitP.

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I think every unit in malaria zone should have either fatigue at least 20, or 20% disabled. Or both, since that'd resemble portion of personnel sick with different diseases constantly. Fatigue would resemble the effect to unit efficiency. This could maybe, like in WitP, reduced by airfield/port size and presence of HQ. 

Actually, in WiTP the original design was to have malaria reduced by airfield / port size or presence of HQ. In reality, it didn't matter. The only real prevention of malaria was to not be in a malarial hex, regardless of base size.

If the absolute lack of malarial effect was fixed in AE, I'd be fine with malaria being treated the way it was in WiTP, with the added benefit of the never-implemented base size reduction.

@BigJ62: Thanks for the warning. I'm looking for realism in this wargame. Malaria was an important aspect of the way the war was waged. Some areas were bypassed entirely (!) due to particularly nasty forms of malaria, regardless of their 'build potential'. I'm looking for this realism to be reinstated- a fact of life-just as it was in WiTP.

I don't want to ruin the game, that's my concern. Units were not rendered combat-inefficient by malaria, it just had quite an effect on any unit within malarial area.

In perfect world, we'd have checks in code like (ideas in italics are mine):

If in Malarial zone, add % chance for fatigue (per week for unit maybe?) (with max cap how high it can get from malaria only)
If in Malarial zone, add % chance of disabled squads per day (again with max cap, I think max 20% of unit disabled from malaria only would be OK)

This could be offset by having excess support squads, within HQ range or by base size. And by admin skill checks. Similarly, having less than required support squads should have detrimental effect on checks.

What do you think?

I am not in favour of bringing back draconian effects from WitP, but there should be some middle way. 

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

I don't want to ruin the game, that's my concern. Units were not rendered combat-inefficient by malaria, it just had quite an effect on any unit within malarial area.

In perfect world, we'd have checks in code like:

If in Malarial zone, add % chance for fatigue (per week for unit maybe?) (with max cap how high it can get from malaria only)
If in Malarial zone, add % chance of disabled squads per day (again with max cap, I think max 20% of unit disabled from malaria only would be OK)

This could be offset by having excess support squads, with or within HQ range or by base size. And by admin skill checks. Similarly, having less than required suppoert squads, should have detrimental effect on checks.

What do you think?

I am not in favour of bringing back draconian effects from WitP, but there should be some middle way. 

I'd be OK with something like this.

The specifics (what % disabling effect malaria / tropical diseases provided) are less important to me than the idea that it should be there in some capacity. I disagree with the 'within HQ range' reduction, however. Having Percival within 9 hexes doesn't matter when you've got mosquitos crawling all over you, depositing Plasmodium sporozoites into your bloodstream.

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Because there was ungodly amount of complaints the way it was before and even through our own testing so...

If your out in the middle of the jungle, it needs to be severe.

If your sitting in Rabual or Port Moresby, not fighting, not doing anything else, and the bases are fully built out, it should be nearly non-existant.

I always like the whole 'combined size of bases over 10 = no malaria' rule that we all thought was true in vanilla WitP.

Because there was ungodly amount of complaints the way it was before and even through our own testing so...

Thanks for your answer.

It's not on/off-switch, I hope?

Me too!

As this malaria and other issues become major discussion points, perhaps it would be nice if the Forum manager would set up a sticky FAQ where ONLY WitP designers address these in a more extensive format.

Maybe its time for a rule whereby units posted in places like the US West Coast, Hawaii, OZ for extended periods suffer the dreaded VD effect.
 

This is probably a good example of how hard it is to please everyone in a game as complex as AE. I wonder how many people who are not commenting in this thread are just fine with the Malaria effects being gone [:)]

Some amount of effect does seem logical to me. It clearly effected troops RL, maybe it is very difficult to code the game to have malaria zones, but also have differing effects depending upon base size within those zones.

I haven't gotten to the point where I have experienced malaria effects in AE.

I did play a campaign PBEM game in original WitP and the malaria effect was pretty brutal. As others have mentioned units never fully recovered. I gathered from reading the release notes and other sources that the malaria effect would be even more brutal in AE.

Sounds like that may not be the case?

As someone else mentioned here, just read "Fire in the Sky" and "Touched by Fire" to see up to what point diseases were a factor in the Solomons, Bismarcks and New Guinea.

In any case, could we have a more elaborate explanation by someone from the development team, please?

Thanks.

read both 2 times. They are excellent reads.

When I referred to the OP that some of my units never recovered, that was after they were pulled out of combat and resting in non malaria zones.

ORIGINAL: stuman

I wonder how many people who are not commenting in this thread are just fine with the Malaria effects being gone [:)]

In the original it unfairly devastated small units. Having to withdraw a base force because my radar contracted malaria and never recovered was a major PITA.

Optimally I'd like to see it work as described in the manual. Unsupported and out of supply units sitting in the jungle should be severely impacted. Fully supported units in a fair sized base should be all but immune. With a few steps in between those two extremes.

If they do put it back the way it was then a switch to turn it off altogether would be great. I realize malaria was a serious problem but if it can't be simulated properly then better not to do it at all.

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

Maybe its time for a rule whereby units posted in places like the US West Coast, Hawaii, OZ for extended periods suffer the dreaded VD effect.

Sure. And a randomized effect for the visiting Geisha squads. One turn, they'll be at Rabaul-morale will go up, two weeks later (incubation time), fatigue and squad disablements should go way up due to this effect.

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Careful what you wish for.

Well, in WitP, malaria was real killer and bit too much. Now it might be too little. I do not want to go back to WitP where you basically never recovered, though.

But small "tuning up" might be good.

In stock WitP, units in malarial areas constantly leaked morale. By 1943, they had none left.

My grandfather was a US army engineer who fought through New Guinea into the PI. He unfortunately contracted malaria but thankfully has not had any flare ups in decades. He said at any one time 20% of his regiment was down due to malaria and various kinds of fevers and general fatigue. In addition, this was in 'built up' areas such as Hollandia and Wewak. He said the poor living conditions, tropic conditions, heat, and stifling humidity really knocked down the available number of personnel that could be put into duty.
One of the biggest projects his regiment worked on was a huge hospital in Wewak and he said as soon as it was operation it was flooded with disease cases probably 20:1 compared to combat casualties.

He said the Australian units for whatever reason had a much lower disease rate and always had a higher % of personnel active. He always had glowing things to say about Australians and said he always saved up cigarettes to trade for Australian clothing and boots since it lasted much much longer than the American issue items.

Anyways, just a little look into the issue from some second hand knowledge I have.

very very cool, tell Granps Thank you very much. [&o]

"Doctor, this will be a long war if for every division facing the enemy, I must count on a second division in hospital with malaria and a third division convalescing from this debilitating disease" General Douglas McArthur.