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Remember CMF Milita Squads upgrade to CMF Inf Squads which upgrade to AIF 42
AIF upgrade to AIF 42
 
You should really wait until you have upgraded all squads to AIF 42 as thats an important upgrade before you start spending AIF 42 squads on rebuilding.
 
e.g. wait until you have 108 AIF 42 Squads (about 2 months) and then let them percolate through all your units performing this vital upgrade
 
You do not want to be fighting anywhere with CMF or CMF Militia Squads

Interesting thread which leads me to an issue which has always puzzled me a little - how do you actually upgrade your squads?

I understand the concept, how TOE works etc. just not how you actually plan and go about this.
I'm not even sure if I've ever noticed it happening, too many other things to worry about most of the time!

Is there a preferred way of doing this or does it just happen?

16.4.1 Upgrades occur automatically and cannot be stopped from happening as long as sufficient new items are in the pool and the unit has access to sufficient supplies.

This indicates to me that you have no direct control over the upgrade process and you cannot target a specific unit for a priority upgrade.

Does the level of supply at the base make any difference or does it just have to have 'some'?

Is there any notification when a TOE upgrade takes place?

Cheers!

Dave

As far as devices (like squads) upgrading, it can only occur if you have the LCU set to Replacements=On. Thereby you can only control it insofar as you can shut Off Replacements to all other LCU's and leave them On for the LCU you want to upgrade first, etc. Sub-optimal, IMO.

As far as TOE upgrades, I've been unable to find what are the required conditions (I've searched a bunch).

Leave them in rest mode near a command HQ and the TOE will upgrade if one is due

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Leave them in rest mode near a command HQ and the TOE will upgrade if one is due

That might be the missing link for me. Thanks.

Thanks for all the info, think i'm starting to understand, maybe.

The TOE Specifies how many of each device are needed to make up a unit.

Therefore, does the TOE need to upgrade before the devices do?

The 6th Division for example, starts with pre-AIF42 (Sorry not near PC) Squads as parts of its TOE.

Do you need to move the Division within range of a command HQ after it's TOE upgrade date so that it upgrades its TOE to now have the AIF42 devices which you can then fill out, or am I completely off track?

Thanks.

Dave

The TOE and Squad upgrades are Indpt of each other.
 
If unit x has 10 2 Pounder AT guns and the pool is 10 6 pounder AT guns then when the criteria are met (supply etc) then the DEVICE will upgrade returning 10 2 pounders tot he pool.
 
OK thats a device upgrade.
 
A TOE upgrade says unit X has a TOE of
 
10 2 Pounders and 10 25 pounders
 
after date Y if in rest mode and near an HQ the TOE changes to 2 x 6 Pounder and 24 x 25 pounder.
 
Lets say you are in rest mode and meet all the conditions and your TOE changes what happens ??
 
Ok
 
Step 1 the TOE changes, Step 2 the computer goes down the list of actual devices the unit had and tries to fit them into its new TOE and it will look backwards in a Device upgrade chain.
 
So in this case
 
the AI would say I want max 2 x 6 pounders - the unit didnt have any of those but oh loook it had 10 x 2 pounders - the 2 pounder upgrades to the 6 pounder so I can use those so I will take 2 of the 2 pounders and put them in that slot and return the other 8 to the pool.
 
OK I want 24 x 25 pounders but the unit only had 10 so I will use all ten of those.
 
New strength of unit 2 x 2 pounders and 10 x 25 pounders, new TOE of unit 2 x 6 pounders and 24 x 25 pounders.
 
When the pool next has 2 x 6 pounders in it and the other conditions are met the device will upgrade - but this is a DEVICE upgrade not a TOE upgrade - it would have doen that whatever the TOE said because the device upgrade is dependent only on the device upgrade path not the TOE.
 
 

Now as a complication if the new TOE of a unit doesnt use devices that were in the old TOE.
 
e.g. Australian Armoured Regts start out with a weird barely Sqn sized TOE including Bren Sections
 
The TOE upgrade removes those Bren sections and gives them proper Armoured Sqns.
 
In those case the new Armoured Regt TOE has an entry of 0 x Bren Sections that is there to tell the computer when the TOE of those units changes send any Bren Sections back to the pool.
 
If I have not put in Bren Section 0 into the new TOE the AI would have used those sections to overstrength the unit.
 
If the computer does not know what to do with a device it leaves it with the unit but sticks it at the bottom as a non TOE overstrength addition.
 
 

So lets take 8th Australian Div's infantry
 
22nd Aus Bde starts with AIF Sections that upgrade to AIF 42 Sections
27th Aus Bde starts with AIF Sections that upgrade to AIF 42 Sections
Bird Bns all start with CMF Infantry Sections that upgrade to AIF 42 Sections.
 
Squad type devices are different from ordinary devices because they are mostly manpower and changes int hem mostly reflect changes in small arms or support weapons.
 
Therefore when a Squad device upgrades the same number of devices is returned to the pool UPGRADED - so when the CMF Infantry Sections upgrade to AIF 42 Sections they return to the pool as AIF 42 Sections - its how we got round the allied squads never having enough to replace combat losses AND upgrades without making squad pools so large as to be effectivelly meaningless.
 
IF you recombine units with different types of device that should all technically be in the same slot - e.g. AIF and CMF Infantry Sections the computer picks the largest to take the device slot and treats the rest as over strength non TOE additions.
 
So lets tyake the example above
 
Assume you manage a full sir Robin each AIF Bde has 108 AIF Sections and the Birds havwe 108 CMF Sections and you press the combine button
 
What happens is you get 8th Aus Div with 216 AIF Sections int he top inf slot and 108 CMF sections as non TOE additions at the bottom.
 
Lets say the unti sits tight for 6 months and squads all upgrade you end up with 216 AIF 42 Sections on top and 108 AIF 42 Sections on bottom.
 
Turn replacements on and it will suck up repalcements as normal until de facto the Div is overstrength by a Bde worth of Infantry.
 
Not good because you are short of replacements.
 
Now fortunately the 8th Australian Div gets a TOE upgrade to lighten it in September 42 at that point even if you have overstrengthed the Div to 432 Squads via this mean (324 TOE plus the extra 108) the TOE upgrade says all I need is 324 AIF 42 Sections so when that upgrade happens to the TOE the extra will be cleared out and the units strength normalised again.
 
 

Thanks for that Andy, makes much more sense now.

One more (last) question I hope.

I've seen the Unit Information Screen and the toggle to display the TOE upgrade.

Where do I find the Device Upgrade Path or do you figure that out from looking at future TOE's maybe?

Dave

ORIGINAL: davbaker

Thanks for that Andy, makes much more sense now.

One more (last) question I hope.

I've seen the Unit Information Screen and the toggle to display the TOE upgrade.

Where do I find the Device Upgrade Path or do you figure that out from looking at future TOE's maybe?

Dave

In-game, use the "D" key; this brings up the Plane & Weapon Database screen. You can then select AA weapons, Artillery, Vehicles, or Infantry and it will list the upgrade.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Will look in the database tonight when I get home.

The more I play this game the more the depth of it amazes me.

or:

Just when I think I've got a handle on something I discover I have no idea [&:]

Cheers!

Dave

So when Rebuilding Unit do all the component parts have to already report to the same HQ?

ORIGINAL: cfulbright

I note some people say you can never combine the 8th Aus Div.  I've done it.  I did as someone else said, changed the Bats from SW Pacific to ABDA command.

It's Apr 43 and the 8th is sitting in Derby at 63% and slowing glowing. The two of the Bird Bn were first moved to N Aus early 1942 and assigned to ABDA. They combined Mid 42 in Derby. I also did the same with the remnents (10 sqds) of an Indian Punjabi Bn that I managed to evacuate by air to N Aus. I shipped them to India and combined into the Indian 9th Div.

I think I would be a little concerned if one of my divs started glowing.

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

I think I would be a little concerned if one of my divs started glowing.

man, they've been smoking. Ooops wrong war.

Try WITP Tracher if you are really interested in figuring out upgrades and device usage.  I find it to be a very helpful tool for that.

I can confirm that it is possible to rebuild. I am at work and can't recall which one it is offhand but I moved one of the Aussie divisions that come in at Aden to Oz early in the game. When Darwin fell, two of those brigades were lost. However the other brigade was at Tennant Creek and I was allowed to just click on that remaining brigade to rebuild the Division. So I have the division although it is rather depleted right now. I won't build it back up until later. Funny thing is I was allowed to rebuild the divsion without using the small cavalry/recon unit that  belonged to the divsion. I have the depleted division and that one small recon unit is operating on its own.
 
Note that these three brigades were never combined into one division but went to Oz separately
 
It might take you a year or two to rebuild the division but still, a division is a division. I would reconstitute any that I can.