Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

I have to admit I feel ripped off. $60 ($70 with shipping) is way to much for an old game like this. For a $70 game,I expect much more. It looks old and plays like an old game. I shouldn't have to mess with my settings to get it to run.That annoying hourglass problem,shaky,lags in scrolling,lousy graphics. The game is WAY overpriced. I would return it if I could.

That would kind of beg the question as to why did you buy it then ? I can say for me personally I knew - as it was clearly explained by matrix .. what they were doing with this game ... there was surely enough information out there for you to know what you were getting ... ?

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I'm disappointed at the disappointment, which as far as I can tell is based on a misunderstanding. This is not a "WITP" or "WITP:AE" project. Both of those were effectively new games and massive undertakings. WITP:AE had over two dozen people working on it.

This was always presented as the same as our other "TalonSoft" releases - a project to update the game to make it compatible with newer operating systems and add some improvements along the way, particularly to any significant bug or balance issues that had not been addressed in the original support process. Have a look at the Campaign Series, TOAW III or the Battleground Series. The gameplay and interface in all of these is virtually identical to the original games, but they work well on modern systems and have a number of improvements. Without exception, all these projects were limited by the original engines and all of them had small development teams (this one had two people).

We combined both games into one updated release here, fixed bugs and made a number of improvements. That's what we promised and that's what was delivered, with each game at half the price of the original (as a side note, when we got the rights to them, the old versions with bugs and modern OS incompatibilities were still selling at full price or higher on the secondary market).

Most importantly, these titles will now also receive post-release support.

Regards,

- Erik

I think that comparison with TOAW III is relevant. I was quite happy with TOAW III, as it has lots of new scenarios, brand new map graphics (although I switched to the old ones, hahaha... too used to them), you can edit equipment, the game runs much faster than before and the AI seems smarter. I think that Matrix went far enough to call that a new game.

With Eagle Day I'm not so sure. It has some improvements, but it seems to be just steps away from the old game -- and this input lag is killing me here. I say all that as respectfully as I can -- I have been a supporter of Matrix for a long, long time.


Thanks,
fbs

ORIGINAL: DBeves

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

I have to admit I feel ripped off. $60 ($70 with shipping) is way to much for an old game like this. For a $70 game,I expect much more. It looks old and plays like an old game. I shouldn't have to mess with my settings to get it to run.That annoying hourglass problem,shaky,lags in scrolling,lousy graphics. The game is WAY overpriced. I would return it if I could.

That would kind of beg the question as to why did you buy it then ? I can say for me personally I knew - as it was clearly explained by matrix .. what they were doing with this game ... there was surely enough information out there for you to know what you were getting ... ?

You are absolutely correct, I only have myself to blame. I wouldn't even had said anything if the game was priced more reasonably. I will play the game, I think I just expected more.
Thanks

I would have gladly paid $50 for just BoB and another $50 for BtR, so long as the resources and time were allocated to bring overall standards up from the original-in other words take the time and effort as was done for WitP AE. Rip up the AI if need be, update the graphics and interface. You build it, they shall come and pay to play. Give Hard Sarge more than just a fireteam of geeks. Give him a platoon of geeks and tell him to run with the ball.

That's my philosophy...of course the bean counters, business analysts and marketing dept, may think differently.

I'll pay more for high quality luxury items-even in this economy.

1 M1A2 Abrams tank that costs hundreds of millions and takes longer to build is far more effective than 4 T-72's that cost far less and can be built in half the time.

As far as lack of a editor and lack of new scenarios. This was a small team. I have a strong feeling that if sales are good and there develops a strong community that new scenarios will come and perhaps an editor. It will just take time.
Also unlike before with past mods to this game, the development team has access to code that was written by themselves so they no longer have to work with other peoples work. This game just needs the proper amount of sales and post release activity here in these forums and I believe new scenarios will come.

ORIGINAL: fbs
I think that comparison with TOAW III is relevant. I was quite happy with TOAW III, as it has lots of new scenarios, brand new map graphics (although I switched to the old ones, hahaha... too used to them), you can edit equipment, the game runs much faster than before and the AI seems smarter. I think that Matrix went far enough to call that a new game.

It's worth noting that TOAW III had more improvements than the other remakes overall and the equipment editor was added post-release. The point I'm making is that this release is right in line with what we promised to deliver for these Talonsoft updated releases.

Good Morning, Gents -

I would like to express my sincere appreciation to the EDBTR team for the time and effort expended upgrading one of my all time favorite games. While rarely posting, I do follow this forum with an avid interest; in this case it is time to weigh in. As Eric and Terminus have pointed out this is not a new game engine - it is remarkable that so much more has been achieved using an engine released in 1999. (I still recall the thrill of buying the original and rushing home to play...)

original by fbs:
Wasn't there any room to assign leaders, split units, have a 1942 campaign, add an editor, add some borders to the map (so I don't bomb a French town), add Coastal Command and get them to hunt U-Boats, add some civilian casualties statistics, make the economy more realistic, or some other enhancements from the 500 that players could come with if they were asked?

fbs, all of the above would be awesome. I strongly suspect that if Hard Sarge and Team had the resources and time available some of the above might have been included. My thought on the matter is that much has already been done - as detailed n other posts; although this release may not meet everyone's expectations it is a significant, major step in the right direction. Bear in mind that the game was released less than a week ago. There is (from my perspective) a humbling array of talent (ie. computer whizzes and modders) who frequent the Matrix forums. I am confident that it wont be long before modificatons, patches and other enhancements / fixes become available.

And remember - there was first Beyond Valour (2002), which laid the foundation for WITP (2004) that was the sequential building block for WITP AE (2009) - another serious quantum leap (if your into spending enless hours micromanaging and editing an incredible array of units, map locations and ships until your eyes burn and it's the wee hours of the morning - but I digress). The point is that EDBTR is an upgrade - a solid piece of work - that stands on its own, but could quite possibly lead to other releases on the European air war somewhere down the road. I would point to the WITEast forums, one of the developers posted that even while going full bore to get WITEast out the door "We are considering a War In Europe game...." (thats the kind of thinking we players like to hear, Boys!).

Keep this in mind - Matrix started from small beginings, but with the production of high quality games coupled with outstanding support (not to mention sheer hard work) and a dedication to excellence, the company has grown to the position it holds today - a source of top notch war games (dare I say "for the serious gamer...") >grin<.

Hard Sarge - it was in November 2007 that you kindly sent me patches and enhancements for the original BoB / BTR and answered many questions. It is evident that you have put your heart and soul into this product - one has only to read the forums. Thank you and Semper Fi, Marine...

Harley - Ditto. Your editor for the original game was outstanding and enhanced my gaming experience. (HINT...)

fbs, sfbaytf, rosseau, LuckyJim1005 - if not sure about playing or purchasing the game, stick with one of your favorites and see what happens with upcoming patches and Mods. I appreciate your opinions and points of view.

To swift, Beta Players, addicts and enthusiasts of EDBTR - keep posting - the fourm is a terrific classroom for us newbies.

Mac

ORIGINAL: jimbo12

I guess it is a matter of perspective and taste. Having followed the Talonsoft "reno process" from the begining I for one am very thankful to see these classic titles have all returned now.

Yes. I knew what I was getting and I'm, quite happy with it. Thank you HS, harley, and Matrix.

As for performance issues, they are never cool but they can be fixed post-release.

ORIGINAL: DBeves

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

I have to admit I feel ripped off. $60 ($70 with shipping) is way to much for an old game like this. For a $70 game,I expect much more. It looks old and plays like an old game. I shouldn't have to mess with my settings to get it to run.That annoying hourglass problem,shaky,lags in scrolling,lousy graphics. The game is WAY overpriced. I would return it if I could.

That would kind of beg the question as to why did you buy it then ? I can say for me personally I knew - as it was clearly explained by matrix .. what they were doing with this game ... there was surely enough information out there for you to know what you were getting ... ?

Exactly. There's no excuse for not being informed about this; the product info screen for the game has been there for months and months, as has the forum.

These complaints simply serve to remind me of how it is sometimes wise to not buy a game on impulse, but rather to wait and read some reviews by players or sources we trust.&nbsp; I have no beef with the game - don't have it - but I have been holding back on buying it just so I can learn more and confirm if it is going to be a game that will please or will disappoint for one reason or another.&nbsp; Not every game is for every gamer.&nbsp; I have bought countless PC games that I played once and quit in disgust or dislike.&nbsp; No more.&nbsp; I am more picky now (being on a pension may be part of it) and so I don't go out and buy things right off the bat any more.&nbsp; Maybe some of the posters with complaints would have been better served by waiting and reading the forums for while.&nbsp; Rushing to buy is, in my experience, an invitation to frequent disappointment.

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: DBeves

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

I have to admit I feel ripped off. $60 ($70 with shipping) is way to much for an old game like this. For a $70 game,I expect much more. It looks old and plays like an old game. I shouldn't have to mess with my settings to get it to run.That annoying hourglass problem,shaky,lags in scrolling,lousy graphics. The game is WAY overpriced. I would return it if I could.

That would kind of beg the question as to why did you buy it then ? I can say for me personally I knew - as it was clearly explained by matrix .. what they were doing with this game ... there was surely enough information out there for you to know what you were getting ... ?

Exactly. There's no excuse for not being informed about this; the product info screen for the game has been there for months and months, as has the forum.

Sorry Terminus, I just don't see anything more then a $60 patch. It can't even scroll properly if anything is highlighted.Where does it tell me that in the product info screen?

I'm liking it.&nbsp; Whilst the interface is dated, under the hood things are (in my opinion) looking good.

Multiple waypoints, 4 waypoints on each leg make it easier to avoid flak traps or disguise your true targets.
Recce kites now take multiple pics per mission, combined with waypoints you can photo large parts of Germany much quicker than before.
Fighter bombers are not just bombers.&nbsp; I had a Typhoon wing conducting a running fight back across France, whilst they did come off second best against the 190s they managed to shoot down several attackers, even bouncing a pair of 109s.&nbsp; They can also carry out fighter sweeps.
I've had Beaufighters and Mossies intercept German NFs in the bomber stream, not just in the landing circuit.
The ability to drag and drop the escort fighter waypoints makes it a lot easier to actually plan your fighter cover.
Whilst it's a bit murky to those not 'in the know' the altitude bands seem to make a difference.&nbsp; Mustang Is and Typhoons are good down low matching the 190s in fighter combat, even the clipped Spit Vs are decent down low.

Ehh, I'll think I'll wait a bit for this one.

I was disappointed in the Battleground re-releases, as they were essentially the same old games....no improvements what-so ever.I was more than happy with JTCS, a quantum leap over the originals with new countries, utilities, new units and other improvements I can't even list them all in this post.Same with WitP:AE.From what it sounds like, this needs a few patches to come out and a fan base to establish....and an editor.

As for the resolution....this is not a deal breaker for me.Although it would be very nice to get higher resolutions especially if we are paying $60-$100 each for these games.

Sorry Terminus, I just don't see anything more then a $60 patch. It can't even scroll properly if anything is highlighted.Where does it tell me that in the product info screen?

some of this is not really fair, this is not "the" game that is at fault, it is the computer that is running the game, something about how some of these computers work, does not match what the rest do, we are working on trying to tell these computers who to do, so that they work like the rest of the computers

and since none of our computers acted like this in testing, it came as a shock the number of people having trouble with it

Hard Sarge...does any of your development team have quad core PCs?

Also, the only way I can get rid of the lag on the map when highlighting targets is to switch off directdraw, which then causes graphical glitches. The game is not playable for me.

As I said in the support forum, I don't mind waiting, but I do hope this is resolved in a patch asap. And I'm a bit skeptical...it sounds to me like switching DirectDraw off will be an automated thing in the patch...if that's the case, after applying the patch, I'm going to have a game interface which scrolls fine, but leaves graphical glitches everywhere...

My system is (and I'll update my tech thread...I should know better!)
Windows XP SP3
nVidia Geforce 8800GT 512MB
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 @2.33GHz
4GB Ram

I think HS has one, he is usually up to date with his computer.
For me it runs well on a Vista duo core intel PC and on my laptop

I'm not going to buy it right now, but that doesn't make it a bad game. Matrix couldn't have been clearer on what it was delivering. And we customers are free to question the price.

However, anyone who had never played the originals is out of their cotton pickin' mind not to pick this one up. I wish I hadn't bought the first two, so I could enjoy this one. If we get an editor, I'm buying!

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Hard Sarge...does any of your development team have quad core PCs?

My system is (and I'll update my tech thread...I should know better!)
Windows XP SP3
nVidia Geforce 8800GT 512MB
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 @2.33GHz
4GB Ram

Me, as said in the support forum.

I'm excited for this one. I played the old BTR to death, and used to lurk in JCL's old forum back in the day. I haven't purchased yet because I'm between paychecks. To those who are complaining, this is a great game - it's more about the "under the hood" stuff than graphics.

Hard Sarge, Harley and the others - thanks for all your efforts on this.

For me it has to qualify:

-Does it have new scenarios?
-Editor?
-Something that is a dramatic change for the better?(Like how JTCS has new Countries and units, or how CoG:EE has new Naval Combat)

You say "under the hood" but then it basicly just becomes a $50 patch since it doesn't bring anything new to the table.So the all the bugs are ironed out, isn't that what a patch does?

I'll probably get this anyway because I never had the originals, but from what I've read so far it doesn't bring of enough new content to be worth $50 if you already have the game.