Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Golden Bear
...Your goal should be to try to get LW losses above the Dingo Line: 50 fighters a day on the average...

Carl, where is Dingo Line?

ORIGINAL: gmoney

...

1 thing that annoys the hell out of me with this game is the 'TOT' estimate which is never anything close to accurate with the b17s. it tells me it takes 49 min to get to an af in northern germany when it takes an hour to reach the coast of france-not sure if anyone else has had this bug but it is anoying forcing me to do MATH in a computer game

This is how the game is designed, it's in the manual. If you check "Review Missions" it will give you a more accurate time-on-target, (TOT). It is one of those funny items in BtR; just like the Action Report will overstate enemy aircraft shot down, but the Campaign Summary will be correct.

TS

Years ago Harley calculated that the Allied player needs to average 50+ LW planes destroyed a turn in order to stay ahead of the huge Axis build program that kicks in as the game goes along. Dingo Line = 50 kill/turn.

ORIGINAL: mikkey

ORIGINAL: Golden Bear
...Your goal should be to try to get LW losses above the Dingo Line: 50 fighters a day on the average...

Carl, where is Dingo Line?

ORIGINAL: Golden Bear
Years ago Harley calculated that the Allied player needs to average 50+ LW planes destroyed a turn in order to stay ahead of the huge Axis build program that kicks in as the game goes along. Dingo Line = 50 kill/turn.

ORIGINAL: mikkey

ORIGINAL: Golden Bear
...Your goal should be to try to get LW losses above the Dingo Line: 50 fighters a day on the average...

Carl, where is Dingo Line?

thanks for explanation. I thought that it's something as Gustav Line in Italy[;)]

ok gonna have to do that then i hate math. Finally reached the century mark in kills yesterday- 121 kills vs 78 losses. about 40 of those kills were on the ground so my fighter boys need to step up thier game-my b17s got killed (38 losses) so it is time for heads to roll-the b17s were heavily escorted but apperently my ground crews thought it would be funny to load up my fighters with rubber bullets and paintballs since all they seemed to do was damage enemy ac

121 for 78 is pretty good. Keep the idea in mind that the bombers are there to draw up the bad guys for you to shoot down. Early in the game - I mean like from the first turn - write down the AFs they launch from and sweep them the next turn. Some JGs will move but some will be there for you to get to. Try to time it so you have planes hovering as they return to the AF so that you can get them landing. Catching them on the ground as they are preparing to take off and between launches is REALLY good for destroying planes on the ground. DOn't know what it does to pilots though. Early in the game is important because most of the LW AFs are very light on AA at this point but will accumulate it rapidly. Don't forget that you can "bait and switch" to use the Fighter Command and Tactical AFs fighters to escort. You NEED this early in '43 and it is historically sound.

In terms of raising your kill ratio, try running bombing missions with only 2 BGs and heavy escort. Fewer targets can help lower losses. At start of game most targets are relatively undamaged so that even a 2BG raid can give you decent points. You want to run raids every turn that weather allows you. It tires out the JGs and ZGs while you rotate your own fighter escorts to keep them fresh.

...and as the man said, the correct-ish TOT is in the Review Missions screen (Ctrl-R). If you are timing a FS to cross with a bombing mission, plot them both then go to RMs and tweak them until the timing is what you want.

well im 30 turns in and doing ok so i guess i missed my 'easy' kills. i do know that you can kill/wound pilots on the ground since one day i only destroyed ac on the ground and still killed/wounded enemy pilots. initially i only targeted one target with max escort but now i have a few more escort units so i hit 2 or 3 targets anytime they are bunched up. I have to use the rm to time my fighter sweeps a bit better, and i do send fs to enemy AF to catch them landing but my timing is still a work in progress. just an interesting note my 20th fighter group (p38js) is my best unit with a 7:1 k/d ratio-wish all my units were taht good this war would be over by x-mas

A new question regarding fighter sweeps.

Whats the difference for a fighter sweep flying along a path or flying towards a patrol point? Do the FS act different?

Frasse

Is there some way to avoid the escorts strafing rail yards and airfields. My squadrons get chewed up by the flak, I hate this, there are on an escort mission and are not supposed to be strafing. One should be able to avoid this, or else the game sucks. 

Currently no, it is necessary to plan a flight out of these places, if possible. It would be better if Harley or Hard Sarge add option "available strafing"/"no strafing" for fighter escort and fighter sweep (like the option for escorts "high escort" or "close escort").

Yeah that they should do, that would make things easier, or they could put a ceiling, meaning patrols or escorts under a certain height will strafe.
Another questions about moral. As mentioned some of my fighter units got chewed up by flak and my bomber units are taking losses all the time. How long do I have to wait for a unit to reach a moral level from 50 to let say 65? The losses have already been replaced but the moral is still low.

Frasse

ORIGINAL: Frasse

Yeah that they should do, that would make things easier, or they could put a ceiling, meaning patrols or escorts under a certain height will strafe.
Another questions about moral. As mentioned some of my fighter units got chewed up by flak and my bomber units are taking losses all the time. How long do I have to wait for a unit to reach a moral level from 50 to let say 65? The losses have already been replaced but the moral is still low.

Frasse

Frasse;

It depends!

Who is the commander, how many days rest has the unit had, has the unit flown a Successful mission, etc?

Some units are almost unbreakable and some units are... a bit tougher to deal with.

TS

As TS says, there are a lot of variables and one of them seems to be that some units just won't improve morale very much.

But here's some things that help:
Wait at least 4 days between missions. I know they recover fatigue after 3 but doing raids every three days wears them down morale wise.
If a unit had a really shattering mission, just let it sit and monitor its morale. It will recover to a point and then plateau off. Then send it on a very short and safe mission, somewhere just across the Channel perhaps. Give it good rest. Do it again. It will improve to a point.

in a fs there is a way to avoid some of your units from strafing the af-set them to high cover and they wont strafe the af. hope this helps

A FS seems LESS likely to go on a random AF strafe if it is targeted to a specific AF... but will still do it sometimes.

The only way I've found is to route the path away from enemy AFs. But they will still wander quite a bit to go hit them.

Carlos

Another noob question.Great game by the way.Im currently playing ED as Axis.Any tips?What is good altitude?How many escorts for each bomber group?Should escorts leave after bombers as they fly faster?Should fighters do sweep on area being bombed?Thanks for any tips and advice.

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

Another noob question.Great game by the way.Im currently playing ED as Axis.Any tips?What is good altitude?How many escorts for each bomber group?Should escorts leave after bombers as they fly faster?Should fighters do sweep on area being bombed?Thanks for any tips and advice.

that is a HARD one, it all depends, depends on who you are playing, the AI or a player, what you are trying to do, what you need to do

remember, the Med's are not B-17s with Norten sites, so, they should be lower, how low, depends on you or what you need

14-18 is good (also, remember, the RAF is better Med to Low, while the LW fighters are better Med to Hi)

escort alt is up to you, for me, I like to put 110s on close, and 109s above them, normally I go 4 K above, if I sent a lot of fighters, then I will put the Stabs at 6, with maybe another Gruppen hanging at 8, prefect world and all, the RAF comes in, bounces off of the 110s, and then the 109s bounce the RAF, of course, what then happens is the RAF gets in and hits the bombers, slap the 110s that try to interfer, the 109s miss the bounce, get below the RAF, who then bounce the missed bounce

but, that is how I set it up (I do like to try to keep a JG to a raid, so if I am sending out 100 88's, I will send a full JG (I/II/III/Stab JG26)

which that can then be set up, based on how long the mission is, is the mission importent, is the mission to draw off the RAF (I mean a raid that is set up to be bait, can have a lot more fighters, as it wants to draw in fighters)

delay take offs can help, but depends on the reason, and how much of a delay is needed, it is better to stagger the escort, then to have all of it take off on delay, just in case

so like a raid to Deben, 110s take off with the bombers, a Gruppen of 109s at 4 or 5 minutes, and then the rest about each 2 minutes afterward (each)

most times does not much good to join up with the raid when it is coming back, you want to join as it is still heading forward

sweeps

those are kind of odd, if you sweep a blank spot, most times the AI will leave them alone, you do not really want to sweep something with a lot of AA, or over fly many targets (fighters love balloons)

now, if the target is a airfield, it is going to drop down to 500-1000 ft and attack the base (and maybe catch some planes on the field, and take AA fire)

it will then patrol around the sweep target (a 2ndary patrol can be set for Sweeps)

sweep fighters, will patrol until they hit bingo fuel, but, they also go to full fuel burn, so the 109 does not have long legs to start with, but once it goes to full burn, it's end will be cut by 3/4ths (110's by design, can not sweep)

a sweep in the right place at the right time, can be deadly, but it can also get hammered HARD

and for what it is worth, I don't get told when someone posts up here, so I don't always know there are questions floating around

Thanks for the tips.Currently 3rd day of long campaign BoB.I start the day by doing recon on targets more than 2 days without photos,then fighter sweep the targets,then bomb runs.I've been concentrating on UK radar.I've done 99 damage to approx 10 stations.Final question I have is re radar.Created a gap up to Birmingham from the coast by destroying the radar stations and see that the white circles are gone as well as the red.I know these circles represent where radar can find my planes but why are some red and some white?Does red represent the individual stations and white is total of stations grouped together?

white is for CH (Chain Home, High radar) detects anything coming in at 3000' or higher.
red is for CHL (Chain Home Low, low radar) detects anything coming in down to 500'

Easy way to remember is white has "hi" in it.[:)]

The night bombing campaign appears to be very interesting. Is there any information available regarding the electronic warfare devices used in the game and how to use them properly?